Lockdown for the unvaccinated - or a full lockdown for everybody?

[PrincessNutNuts]

Which would you choose?

Moving to the 2G model means removing the testing option for anything non-essential, so certain shops, leisure facilities, gyms, hairdressers etc. It's certainly not "only go out for food and work" whatever the media is saying.

I don’t see how removing the test option is considered safer - if anything, extending the testing requirement to everyone for access to certain services would make more sense if they want to catch asymptomatic cases.

@PrincessNutNuts

Which would you choose?

If a full lockdown is necessary it needs to be for the entire population. Many many issues with trying to enforce for those who aren't vaccinated, including that the vaccines aren't good enough at reducing infection to justify it IMO.

If the government would just continue to encourage suppression measures like LFT-ing (for those who can), mask wearing, ventiliation etc etc, that would be helpful in trying to prevent more damaging policies like lockdown.

@puppeteer

Full lockdown for those that want a full lockdown.

Everyone else is free to do as they please.

This

@puppeteer

No one WANTS lockdown
But Most of us accept that if things get bad in hospitals it may be necessary

Neither

Especially not lockdown as we’ve experienced

@puppeteer

” overweight/obesity being a high risk factor”

This bugs me. For all the talk of following science, and for all of Johnson’s near fatal illness that he himself ascribes to his weight… basically it’s been ignored. No discussion, and certainly no effort to make the situation better.

But lockdown for those that “cause” that group risk. Yeah, that’s good.

We’ve had time to decrease this risk.

We probably increased it instead

The info from @bertiebotts there shows how anything less than lockdown doesn't achieve much - people say we should just have masks and testing and covid passes and it'll be enough - yet some of the countries with that have high rates that are growing even faster - Netherlands and Austria are having "lockdowns" despite these measures.

So the measures are clearly not sufficient, if you want to reduce cases, you have to call for lockdown not masks.

*@bumbleymummy

You know how most of the adults over 29 in hospital are vaccinated because most of the adults over 29 in the country are vaccinated?

Well it's similar for BMI.

My BMI certainly went over 25 when I was pregnant.

And I don't think I know any adult men over about 28 who would have a BMI of 25 or under

You'd be hard pressed to find any fat on my husband and his is 27. Most fit men with muscles would have a BMI over 25

So you would be putting a huge chunk of the pregnant population and the male half of the population in lockdown.

And it wouldn't help. They'd get fat stuck at home unable to go to the gym or for a run. And skinny teenagers would still be spreading covid via schools.

There's a gene that makes people more likely to experience severe covid.

People are born with it.

It's not "selfishness". It's genetic.

Men are statistically over-represented on covid wards. Again, born with it.

The biggest risk factor is still age. Not BMI. Short of suicide there's not much people can do about that either.

But the point of curtailing the freedoms of un-vaccinated people is primarily because they spread covid much more than vaccinated people and help keep the pandemic going.

And then yes, if they get ill with covid they are iller than they would be if they were vaccinated.

But it's the asymptomatic disease carriers that can be "Typhoid Mary's" and infect large sections of a classroom, a hairdressers, a cinema, or a pub etc.

And more cases means more illness more time off work, more economic damage, more chaos in education, more restrictions being brought in, more hospitalisations and more deaths.

No more lockdowns. I genuinely don’t think we’ll have another one thankfully. We just seem to be trucking along with cases bouncing up & down. No extreme spikes or pressure currently.

Get the booster programme rolled out to everyone as seems to be suggested this morning & I think we’ll be fine.

I think it’s safe to say a lockdown segregated by vaccination status would never really work here or anywhere, Austria may have to admit this if their cases continue rising in the context of locking down unvaccinated citizens from their society.

Our next lockdown will either be a result of cases getting even worse than they are now where the NHS really can not cope at all and deaths start to creep into the 3/400 per day range or we see a new variant that can not be managed by our vaccination efforts. Both of which are very real possibilities if we are to continue to live with Covid as though it does not exist.

@Bobholll

No more lockdowns. I genuinely don’t think we’ll have another one thankfully. We just seem to be trucking along with cases bouncing up & down. No extreme spikes or pressure currently.

Get the booster programme rolled out to everyone as seems to be suggested this morning & I think we’ll be fine.

I agree

I’d find mitigations plus sharp rise more concerning wrt to more measures

Ie I’d rather our level for months than some of the countries that had had sharp increases as I think we might get away with not even plan B

[quote Covidworries]@puppeteer

No one WANTS lockdown
But Most of us accept that if things get bad in hospitals it may be necessary[/quote]
Quite a few people on this forum seem to find relish in the prospect of a good lockdown. :-)

But thankfully people are weary of the claim that they are necessary and appropriate. The costs are increasingly apparent. And in practice, they diverts us from doing anything to actually improve the situation — like encouraging more healthy lifestyles, or increasing the capacity of our health systems, or a million other things that might actually improve our world.

@Bobholll

No more lockdowns. I genuinely don’t think we’ll have another one thankfully. We just seem to be trucking along with cases bouncing up & down. No extreme spikes or pressure currently.

Get the booster programme rolled out to everyone as seems to be suggested this morning & I think we’ll be fine.

I don't know about that.

If you Google news for the word "ambulance":

www.google.co.uk/search?q=ambulance&client=safari&hl=en-gb&prmd=invx&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjmxcj1n5r0AhWBY8AKHaM2Bo4Q_AUoAnoECAMQAg&biw=375&bih=553&dpr=2

Or "NHS pressure":

www.google.co.uk/search?q=nhs+pressure&client=safari&hl=en-gb&biw=375&bih=553&tbm=nws&ei=p0KSYeCpHIepgAbi-KrICw&oq=nhs+pressure&gs_lcp=Cg9tb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXNlcnAQAzIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEOgcIABCxAxBDOggIABCABBCxAzoLCAAQgAQQsQMQgwE6BAgAEENQrhBYkiVg8SpoAHAAeACAAWCIAZkFkgECMTCYAQCgAQGqARltb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwLW1vZGVzwAEB&sclient=mobile-gws-serp

Or "black alert"

www.google.co.uk/search?q=black+alert+&client=safari&hl=en-gb&biw=375&bih=553&tbm=nws&ei=xUKSYZTJIcaagQaxt6PQBg&oq=black+alert+&gs_lcp=Cg9tb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXNlcnAQAzIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEOgUIABCRAjoICAAQgAQQsQM6CwgAEIAEELEDEIMBOgcIABCxAxBDOgQIABBDOggIABCxAxCDAToKCAAQsQMQgwEQQzoFCAAQsQNQpwdYtDRguT1oAHAAeAGAAZACiAHgEJIBBjIzLjAuMpgBAKABAaoBGW1vYmlsZS1nd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAtbW9kZXOwAQDAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-serp

I found this chart useful

Keeping the more important lines flatter

We’re no where near pressures of last year re hospitalisation

Neither!!!

Quite a few people on this forum seem to find relish in the prospect of a good lockdown. :-)

Experience has taught me that these kinds of ""if you want mitigations you're a lockdown lover" comments ramp up on here before a lockdown.

And this is the second one I've seen in the last 24 hours.

@MARSHABRADYO

yes graph is reasuring but i wish we could see lines for reinfections to and also hospitalisation and deaths for reinfections. May not be a problem but its hard to know when data is hidden.

Of course if cases grow alot between now and christmas all 3 lines will rise too.

@PrincessNutNuts

Quite a few people on this forum seem to find relish in the prospect of a good lockdown. :-)

Experience has taught me that these kinds of ""if you want mitigations you're a lockdown lover" comments ramp up on here before a lockdown.

And this is the second one I've seen in the last 24 hours.

You do say this a lot. Maybe the common dominator is your posts?

I mean they do seem to invite it. Maybe more useful to reflect on that instead of some weird apparition of a lockdown that isn’t imminent. I mean we’re off even Plan B atm.

People on here that want a lockdown are a minority tg. But there are still a few, but they can do their own lockdown instead.

@MarshaBradyo

I found this chart useful

Keeping the more important lines flatter

We’re no where near pressures of last year re hospitalisation

You're not factoring in the health time bomb caused by keeping the NHS so busy with covid for 18 months that it couldn't keep up with its usual work.

Covid adds to the pressure. And that is avoidable. So we should do all we can to avoid it.

But obviously, covid is not the only thing hospitals have to deal with.

*You do say this a lot. Maybe the common dominator is your posts?

I mean they do seem to invite it. Maybe more useful to reflect on that instead of some weird apparition of a lockdown that isn’t imminent. I mean we’re off even Plan B atm.

People on here that want a lockdown are a minority tg. But there are still a few, but they can do their own lockdown instead*

I don't think anybody wants a lockdown @MarshaBradyo

But I'm counting that as 3 in 24 hours.

[quote Covidworries]@MARSHABRADYO

yes graph is reasuring but i wish we could see lines for reinfections to and also hospitalisation and deaths for reinfections. May not be a problem but its hard to know when data is hidden.

Of course if cases grow alot between now and christmas all 3 lines will rise too.[/quote]
Can you say more about reinfection being hidden?

Do you mean the way the data is collected afaik we do have it

Or due to low testing at beginning?

Where do you think the error is?

Btw I think the booster is key to keeping those lines slow / flat and hopefully that will be high

@PrincessNutNuts

Quite a few people on this forum seem to find relish in the prospect of a good lockdown. :-)

Experience has taught me that these kinds of ""if you want mitigations you're a lockdown lover" comments ramp up on here before a lockdown.

And this is the second one I've seen in the last 24 hours.

I was just thinking the same, it’s like Deja vu. No one wants lockdown but they also don’t want to wear a mask or have social distancing restrictions as we have 40k cases and around 200 deaths per day, then follows the incredulity when we have to slam on the brakes because all of a sudden the situation escalates over the tipping point.

Meanwhile we’re called lockdown lovers for stating the obvious 🙄

@PrincessNutNuts

*You do say this a lot. Maybe the common dominator is your posts?

I mean they do seem to invite it. Maybe more useful to reflect on that instead of some weird apparition of a lockdown that isn’t imminent. I mean we’re off even Plan B atm.

People on here that want a lockdown are a minority tg. But there are still a few, but they can do their own lockdown instead*

I don't think anybody wants a lockdown @MarshaBradyo

But I'm counting that as 3 in 24 hours.

Why?

It’s just weird, I mean really odd.

But I suppose if you have a lottery version of same I’ll take it.

No lockdown ever again for any one.

They were a huge mistake and the history books will judge accordingly.

Some posters do advocate lockdowns, when majority don’t, it’s just a fact

Not something to get all mystical about.