Austria unvaccinated lockdown

[MRex]

How is this expected to actually work in practice? I have only seen basic UK news articles, interested mostly to understand the practical implications.

Personal views without knowing detail: I simply don't see any way this can be achieved without infringing on personal freedoms of unvaccinated and vaccinated quite significantly. I'm very pro-vax in general and for covid, but I hope the UK doesn't start anything like this, seems like it would just have anyone digging their heels in and cause a lot of social unrest issues.

Refractory where have you read about first one on your list?

But to just blanket confine unvaccinated people, many of whom might have already had covid without needing hospitalisation and many of whom might be under 40 and therefore extremely unlikely to die from covid or end up in hospital then I just can’t get on board with it.

If the under 40s are so extremely unlikely to die from Covid or end up in hospital, why were we confined last year then? Why were those who had recently recovered from Covid still required to lock down last winter? If it’s such a low risk, we should’ve been out and about, surely? (The reality is, it’s not such a low risk but anyway…)

I come from Spain and we’ve had digital electronic ID cards for years now. I also don’t use cash anymore. Climate lockdown next for me? And the majority of the Spanish population?

Sorry that was meant to read digital and electronic ID cards*

[quote Colin56]@bumbleymummy
The reinfection stats on double vaxxed are currently 0.01%.
So vaccines are remarkably good at doing what they were designed to do. Infection and hospitalusation is driven primarily by unvaccinated. Thats fact.
I didnt say we had 20 months of data on vaccines. Read it again.[/quote]
‘Reinfection rates’ are for people who have contracted the virus again after previously being (naturally) infected. You need to look at breakthrough cases if you want data on infections after vaccination.

@Dishhh

They end up in hospital primarily because of unvaccinated people.

Nice try there. Blame the rise in elderly hospitalisations on the unvaccinated when the fault lies in the vaccines as we're now seeing.

@MarshaBradyo

Refractory where have you read about first one on your list?

theintercept.com/2021/09/09/covid-origins-gain-of-function-research/

They end up in hospital primarily because of unvaccinated people.

They end up in hospital because they come in contact with infected people who could be vaccinated/unvaccinated/not eligible for vaccine (eg young children). Thankfully we’re rolling out the booster vaccines to vulnerable people quite quickly and we can see hospitalisations in older age groups starting to drop.

If the under 40s are so extremely unlikely to die from Covid or end up in hospital, why were we confined last year then? Why were those who had recently recovered from Covid still required to lock down last winter?

Well going off the death rates for the under 40s its pretty clear to see that the Government massively over reacted.

The under 40s are extremely unlikely to die. There are many many sites like the ONS which will show you this.

@MauraandLaura

If the under 40s are so extremely unlikely to die from Covid or end up in hospital, why were we confined last year then? Why were those who had recently recovered from Covid still required to lock down last winter?

Well going off the death rates for the under 40s its pretty clear to see that the Government massively over reacted.

The under 40s are extremely unlikely to die. There are many many sites like the ONS which will show you this.

Yes it is low

Lower risk were included in lockdown last winter to lower infection to vulnerable

Those recently recovered were not much of a risk but difficult to monitor or enforce if they were not in lockdown at same time

The news last night said there had been a higher number of vaccine take up in the Austrian regions where the new restrictions will be implemented.

Maybe the posters who live there who were posting on the thread will be able to tell us more?

Ironic that people protesting against restrictions for themselves are also advocating putting restrictions on other people. Anybody else as long as it's not them. And it's the same people who've been mithering about the "othering" for months towards them for nor having the vaccine. A veritable conundrum.

@Colin56, no good coming up with facts. You'll have noticed the lack of "if the vaccinated catch the virus in the first place, which would be unlikely" on every post by Bumbleymummy. It's always helpful to point it out though, in case other posters might think what she (cleverly) doesn't say means the vaccinated are as much of a risk as the unvaccinated and choose not to take the vaccine based on what somebody on MN says.

Of course, when vaccine lies and misinformation do get spread, HQ are pretty good at deleting as well. After all, they wouldn't want it later to be found they were allowing their forum to be used to spread potentially dangerous anti-vax myths.

@bumbleymummy

They end up in hospital primarily because of unvaccinated people.

They end up in hospital because they come in contact with infected people who could be vaccinated/unvaccinated/not eligible for vaccine (eg young children). Thankfully we’re rolling out the booster vaccines to vulnerable people quite quickly and we can see hospitalisations in older age groups starting to drop.

Agree boosters are more important than locking down unvaccinated

@EileenGC

But to just blanket confine unvaccinated people, many of whom might have already had covid without needing hospitalisation and many of whom might be under 40 and therefore extremely unlikely to die from covid or end up in hospital then I just can’t get on board with it.

If the under 40s are so extremely unlikely to die from Covid or end up in hospital, why were we confined last year then? Why were those who had recently recovered from Covid still required to lock down last winter? If it’s such a low risk, we should’ve been out and about, surely? (The reality is, it’s not such a low risk but anyway…)

I come from Spain and we’ve had digital electronic ID cards for years now. I also don’t use cash anymore. Climate lockdown next for me? And the majority of the Spanish population?

ID2020 is the UN's plan for a global digital ID platform, it's a solution that's been looking for a problem for many years now.

A lot of people are blasé about the elimination of cash. I don't understand why people trust their governments so much after the past 20 months, but I have a lot of friends who feel the same as you.

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/06/21/bank-england-tells-ministers-intervene-digital-currency-programming/

As for why we were confined last year, excellent question.

@MarshaBradyo
@Refractory

www.factcheck.org/2021/10/scicheck-republicans-spin-nih-letter-about-coronavirus-gain-of-function-research/

There's the debunking report on the lie told by the Intercept.

I know the under 40s are extremely unlikely to die. Then why didn’t we kick off last year? People stayed home, kept their kids off school, tested regularly (for a disease that doesn’t kill us?), in the UK they even complied with a rule that banned them from seeing family and friends for 6 months. Which was, in my opinion, unnecessary and inhumane.

The realistic answer is - what could we have done? Even if I’d left my house to go the pub or the cinema, I would’ve found those places closed. Were we up in arms back then about our ‘rights’ as a younger demographic?

It’ll be the same now. Realistically, there’s nothing we - as individuals - can do. No Covid pass, no entry to XYZ has been the norm for months in some countries. Life goes on because it’s not like you can go against that. And if it helps keep things open and avoid yet another lockdown for the vast majority of people, of course I’ll support it. This is before we bring science into it which supports it even more.

The vaccine doesn’t eliminate transmission. It does reduce it as we can all read in the studies that have been conducted. It reduces both the transmission rate and the viral load that is spread. The fact that we’re just a bit higher than last winter in terms of incidence speaks volumes about vaccine efficacy - because if they weren’t effective, with all businesses open and people mingling like in 2019, we should be seeing far, far higher numbers compared to last winter.

I know the under 40s are extremely unlikely to die. Then why didn’t we kick off last year? People stayed home, kept their kids off school, tested regularly (for a disease that doesn’t kill us?)

I didn’t test regularly and what could anyone do about school? It wasn’t a choice.

If the under 40s are so extremely unlikely to die from Covid or end up in hospital, why were we confined last year then? Why were those who had recently recovered from Covid still required to lock down last winter? If it’s such a low risk, we should’ve been out and about, surely?

Because, in the absence of a vaccine, they were trying to keep cases down to prevent spread to elderly/more vulnerable people who were the most likely to end up in hospital. We knew who the most vulnerable groups were quite early on and these didn’t change, even with delta.

Because, in the absence of a vaccine, they were trying to keep cases down to prevent spread to elderly/more vulnerable people who were the most likely to end up in hospital.

Exactly. This isn’t new information

Hi again @PAFMO. As I’ve already pointed out to you on several other threads now, and made clear on this thread, I’m talking about people who are infected because the point is that you don’t know if someone is infected or not based on their vaccine status - hence the pointless of vaccine passports.

Protection against infection wanes after a few months. Thankfully, protection against serious illness remains higher.

“ Effectiveness against infections declined from 88% (95% CI 86–89) during the first month after full vaccination to 47% (43–51) after 5 months. Among sequenced infections, vaccine effectiveness against infections of the delta variant was high during the first month after full vaccination (93% [95% CI 85–97]) but declined to 53% [39–65] after 4 months. Effectiveness against other (non-delta) variants the first month after full vaccination was also high at 97% (95% CI 95–99), but waned to 67% (45–80) at 4–5 months. Vaccine effectiveness against hospital admissions for infections with the delta variant for all ages was high overall (93% [95% CI 84–96]) up to 6 months.”

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02183-8/fulltext

@MarshaBradyo

I know the under 40s are extremely unlikely to die. Then why didn’t we kick off last year? People stayed home, kept their kids off school, tested regularly (for a disease that doesn’t kill us?)

I didn’t test regularly and what could anyone do about school? It wasn’t a choice.

Were you campaigning against it? No. This is what I’m saying, most people silently complied with what was asked of them, it’s only now that attitudes are changing.

I remember so many posters on here, including yourself, who were horrified when I advocated for an open travel policy last year and mentioned I was still flying for work and to see my family at Christmas. That was apparently the most unsafe thing ever, I was selfish and would be responsible for killing people and ruining other families’ Christmases.

All that sanctimonious behaviour about lockdowns last year has now turned into ‘they’re controlling us and I won’t have it’. It’s interesting how people’s opinion changes in less than a year… It’s like values change when one’s own situation does, instead of showing some consistency with what we claim we believe in.

I’m talking in general terms of course, not about your personally, regardless of the quote.

@PAFMO - there is a very easy availability of the vaccine here in Austria. It’s just a large % I guess didn’t get it. I think the current restrictions are designed to allow freedom for vaccinated and make those not choose to get it as it is difficult to now work if your aren’t.
Whether that’s right or wrong, it does seem to be increasing those now getting the vaccine.

Also number wise, Vienna is now vaccinating age 5 and over, the rest 12+ at the moment ( double vaccine). So remember the % of vaccinated is over 5/12, not over 17 or whatever as in some countries which does sway statistics a bit.

I think there will be a last minute vaccine panic before the ski season starts as well ( in certain regions it’s one of the main income sources, which was already restricted last year)

Were you campaigning against it?

I’ve written to my MP three times over school closures. So yes I did do something. And I’ve been pretty vocal re school closures on here so it’s no news I felt strongly about it.

It was the thing most infuriating for a very low risk group. And it brought harms to that group.

But my dc was not a KW dc there wasn’t a choice for them.

[quote bumbleymummy]Hi again @PAFMO. As I’ve already pointed out to you on several other threads now, and made clear on this thread, I’m talking about people who are infected because the point is that you don’t know if someone is infected or not based on their vaccine status - hence the pointless of vaccine passports.

Protection against infection wanes after a few months. Thankfully, protection against serious illness remains higher.

“ Effectiveness against infections declined from 88% (95% CI 86–89) during the first month after full vaccination to 47% (43–51) after 5 months. Among sequenced infections, vaccine effectiveness against infections of the delta variant was high during the first month after full vaccination (93% [95% CI 85–97]) but declined to 53% [39–65] after 4 months. Effectiveness against other (non-delta) variants the first month after full vaccination was also high at 97% (95% CI 95–99), but waned to 67% (45–80) at 4–5 months. Vaccine effectiveness against hospital admissions for infections with the delta variant for all ages was high overall (93% [95% CI 84–96]) up to 6 months.”

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02183-8/fulltext[/quote]
Yes. And @Colin56 was talking about the likelihood of a vaccinated person becoming infected in the first place, which always seems to be omitted from your posts. Thankfully, others are here to give a fuller picture.

@MarshaBradyo

It was the thing most infuriating for a very low risk group. And it brought harms to that group.

But my dc was not a KW dc there wasn’t a choice for them.

I agree, it was infuriating and damaging for many people.

Sad that some people only cared about those aspects of lockdown that affected themselves and their families.

I was blasted on here and called selfish for still wanting to do my non-essential job, or travel - as a low-risk, negatively-tested healthy person in my 20s at very little risk. In a country where it was allowed.

I really hope this pandemic has at least taught as to look further than our front door and be understanding of other people’s circumstances.

And nobody is disputing the waning of the protection. That's why, thankfully, we are now rolling out boosters.

This time last year, much of Europe had a positivity rate of between 15-20%. It's currently, in many countries, hovering around 1.5%. That will hopefully mean, once boosters are administered, we can all look forward to a better winter than last year.