Around 30,000 unvaccinated care staff will not be allowed to work from today.

[CalamariGames]

www.thesun.co.uk/health/16698590/care-home-staff-lose-job-unvaccinated/

This seems really concerning. I personally am in favour of the vaccination and I think care home staff should be vaccinated but this seems like a massive shortage of staff to compensate for in an industry that is already having difficulty with recruitment. What is the government doing to ensure vulnerable patients are getting the care they need?

@littlenickyy61

Ricetwisty - What jobs are they going to walk into?

Retail and hospitality are crying out for staff and wages and working conditions and career prospects are better too . The many carers that have left my place of work have all got better paid jobs than before some for Amazon , most in hospitality and supermarkets . Contrary to the opinion of some on here ( not implying you Ricetwisty) we are not all unintelligent dimwits only capable of care work but actually people who have many transferable skills and are flexible enough to adapt to different industry sectors

I work in the financial sector and there is currently a big recruitment drive due the large number of people in financial difficulties, there’s many ‘entry’ level jobs available with good pay (better than care work) and good prospects and you actually get to help people who need it so skills from care would come in handy. Also, many of the companies offer private healthcare as an employment benefit which may well be needed.

I walked out of care work and straight into a better paid job. They are out there and employers are happy to take ex carers on due to the hard work we have done.

@Amberflames

*Vaccination does not prevent infection It does not prevent transmission*

Fucking hell how are people still so uneducated about this.

The vaccine doesn’t completely stop transmission but it does reduce it.

So yes, carers having the vaccine does reduce the risk for the people they work with.

As would visitors and the people living in care homes being vaccinated. No one's up in arms about unvaccinated residents or visitors though, who pose just as much risk for all the reasons we're told unvaccinated care workers do.

@littlenickyy61

Ricetwisty - What jobs are they going to walk into?

Retail and hospitality are crying out for staff and wages and working conditions and career prospects are better too . The many carers that have left my place of work have all got better paid jobs than before some for Amazon , most in hospitality and supermarkets . Contrary to the opinion of some on here ( not implying you Ricetwisty) we are not all unintelligent dimwits only capable of care work but actually people who have many transferable skills and are flexible enough to adapt to different industry sectors

That's good, probably a good thing for them then!

@Ricetwisty

Yes, it probably is better for them, thinking about getting out myself and nothing to do with the vaccine because I've had it. And all to do with being left to swing - again - because the industry and government refuse to acknowledge the reason that the loss of unvaccinated carers is having such an impact, because it's run on a shoestring and the good will of carers, which is running out, and they refuse to do anything about it. Care companies can't recruit, they're handing back LA contracts because they can't provide the staff to provide the care. But instead of looking at why recruitment and retention is so low (poor pay, high expectations, free work the norm etc) and making a change to those things (because they'll cost money) those who are left getting poor care, no care and covering the work of those who have left are being ignored in favour of slating non vaccinated carers, vaccination is not going to address those things, mandatory vaccination has made them worse - with no plan on how to deal with that.
We've got a media campaign to try and draw people into the sector - but no change actually within it to address the issues that have been compounded by the fall out from mandatory vaccination.
Whatever your feelings about care and mandatory vaccination, it is not the sole reason the industry is in such a mess, it's the reason it's happening now and 'suddenly'. In a similar vein to saying care workers have had enough time to get vaccinated, care providers and the government have had enough time to up their game and attract people to work in this industry by improving terms, pay and conditions. They haven't. That tells me what I need to know about how much actually the 'protection of the vulnerable' is at the heart of it.

I understand the idea of protecting the vulnerable. Why is regular testing not deemed an acceptable alternative to vaccination for those who don't want the jab? I firmly believe that everyone should have autonomy over what medical procedures or treatments they choose.

@Mydogdoesntlisten

I understand the idea of protecting the vulnerable. Why is regular testing not deemed an acceptable alternative to vaccination for those who don't want the jab? I firmly believe that everyone should have autonomy over what medical procedures or treatments they choose.

Cost. Are you willing to pay for regular testing for the next six months? Twelve months?

If everyone refusing the jab out of choice would pay for their own PPE and regular testing then crack on and do it. Suspect very few would be willing or able to afford to do so.

@RachC2021
ppe is currently (or should be being used) by all care staff anyway, regardless of their vaccination status, regardless of if they have a viral infection, regardless of if they have a cold or chest infection or whooping cough. Are you suggesting that someone should pay for PPE if they may or may not have any of these (or a any number of other ailments) as well?

Testing is currently free to everyone, and is actively encouraged to the whole population.

Assuming that everyone pays their tax, on their wages, on the items they buy, on their bills etc they are intact paying for the cost of PPE and testing. I highly doubt a support practitioner on £8.70 an hour and living pay check to pay check has an offshore account or fiddling their taxes

Cost. Are you willing to pay for regular testing for the next six months? Twelve months?

We're getting tested 4 times a week regardless of vaccination status - it's about protecting the vulnerable right?!

If everyone refusing the jab out of choice would pay for their own PPE and regular testing then crack on and do it. Suspect very few would be willing or able to afford to do so.

PPE should be used regardless of covid, with the exception of masks it's standard practice for any care being delivered. But you've unintentionally raised a good point though - if those standards were being adhered to and PPE allowed to be used in the way it's supposed to be, why was there an immediate shortage in care homes? Maybe because it wasn't being used the way it's supposed to be and the ancient roll of aprons and dusty box of gloves were only ever cracked out when something really dirty needed cleaning up or we had someone with c-diff or similar.

@Reduceddutiesboredom
@Maverickess

We are currently using more PPE than we did prior to 2019. Both standard stuff and then the higher grade masks.

We are doing a whole bunch of testing that we weren’t prior to 2019.

I am very, very sure the government would like to stop funding all of that. Easiest way of doing that? Persuade everyone to get jabbed, because outright telling people to get infected and get antibodies that way would be immoral.

If Covid drops to something like mumps or flu or anything else we vaccinate for but which is manageable, we can scrap most of the stuff we’re doing now.

The government could easily say that it’s OK for unvaccinated people to work in the NHS/care homes, but to do so each person has to fund their own testing. Realistically almost nobody would do that because it’s too expensive. Maybe a few consultants would.

I genuinely do not see the testing requirements carrying on forever. Not like they are now. At most I see it for procedures requiring a general anaesthetic in hospital. Why then would the government want to provide testing for free for those who don’t want to get vaccinated?

Without even taking vaccines into account, social care is facing a real crisis in terms of recruitment (in Scotland, anyway). It's definitely an employees market, and while I'm glad social care staff are able to be more picky than they were before when there were fewer jobs, it's causing real issues on the front line. Adding mass job losses due to mandatory vaccines would be an absolute disaster in our current climate

What’s the point of getting jabbed if you’ve already had Covid ?
There is evidence to show that pre infection gives better immunity than the vaccine.
Surely if people can show they’ve had it it’s as good as a vaccine passport ?
However it’s probably more about money and government deals with the vaccine manufacturers so we’re now in a position where we are instructed to admire the emperor’s new clothes.
Never mind the science.

Bidding war going on costs are going to soar.

"Geoff Butcher, director of Blackadder Corporation, which runs six homes in the West Midlands, said that he paid nurses about £19.50 an hour, slightly higher than the NHS rate of £16.52. “Two of our nurses resigned recently and they’ve gone to an agency for £35 an hour,” he said. “And that agency then came to us and said we can have these staff back at £52 an hour. They want £95 an hour for those nurses on a bank holiday nightshift. It’s utterly unaffordable."

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/14/staffing-agencies-triple-rates-as-care-homes-and-nhs-fight-over-nurses

If only there was a bidding war for social care workers on the bottom rung of the ladder, it’s illogical being on the minimum wage with high levels of responsibility

Fucking hell @vera99 Thats some mark up.

That's nothing of a mark up compared to most agency work tbf. It's always been that way since the days we signed to to Reed as students in the long summer holidays and were sent to offices to do the filing. It's how employment agencies work.

Factor in that the agencies have the upper hand (if we're talking care/nursing sector then it's currently not due to being unvaccinated but due to Brexit) and it's, as it always was, an agency market.

As long ago as the 80s when I was at school, teachers working for agencies and doing supply were paid for a day what pro rata full time permanent teachers would have been paid for a week. If not more. A close family member left a head of dept job and did supply on that basis, sure, you moved around and it was new week new school, but very little paperwork, no preparation, and a very nice payment at the end of it.

I have a fully qualified and very experienced nurse friend who now only does agency. Says she'd never go back to being permanent anywhere. Some people prefer it.

(Apologies for anecdata, but I doubt they are the only ones)

Agency teaching pay in the U.K. is usually between £130 per day for NQTs and £215 per day for the highest grade. Seems quite reasonable considering the lack of guaranteed work.

Care agencies in my area are paid £17-£22 per hour and they pay care workers £12-17 per hour. This also seems quite reasonable considering the lack of guaranteed work.

Care services could opt to secure and retain a stronger workforce through better hourly pay but opt not to.

Care services loss is the care agencies gain

@Saltyquiche

If only there was a bidding war for social care workers on the bottom rung of the ladder, it’s illogical being on the minimum wage with high levels of responsibility

It's happening already.

For more insight into this I'd recommend 'Inside the care crisis ' with Ed Balls, it's a two parter and available on BBC iPlayer.
It's more 'true' than other care documentaries I've seen before and a little bit grittier.

@Maverickess
Got told by someone i know that her daughter had to travel 81 miles to access her vaccine or lose her job in a care home. 81 miles. On a care home wage. Why arent we hearing about this. Instead of all the lazy media assumption that people are anti vaxxers.

[quote MercyBooth]@Maverickess
Got told by someone i know that her daughter had to travel 81 miles to access her vaccine or lose her job in a care home. 81 miles. On a care home wage. Why arent we hearing about this. Instead of all the lazy media assumption that people are anti vaxxers.[/quote]
I'm still trying to access my booster and flu vaccine, I've managed to book the flu with the chemist but as I missed the booster because both times they came were smack bang in the middle of the day, I was between nights and my employer said a flat no to swapping shifts to facilitate, and my GP 'isn't doing boosters' I'm having to hope I get in with the vaccine bus at the start of next month.
Wanna start by making it accessible really.

Exactly. Im still trying to access my second which is why i stood in Sainsburys this afternoon and laughed at the headline on the i paper and thats how the conversation started.

Your employer said no? what a tool

In the hierarchy of carers, night staff are firmly at the bottom 🤣