Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Around 30,000 unvaccinated care staff will not be allowed to work from today.

236 replies

CalamariGames · 11/11/2021 10:05

www.thesun.co.uk/health/16698590/care-home-staff-lose-job-unvaccinated/

This seems really concerning. I personally am in favour of the vaccination and I think care home staff should be vaccinated but this seems like a massive shortage of staff to compensate for in an industry that is already having difficulty with recruitment. What is the government doing to ensure vulnerable patients are getting the care they need?

OP posts:
henlee · 12/11/2021 15:43

@CovidCorvid

The govt own website says 1645 deaths in the last year in the UK have been linked to the vaccine though the majority of those cases haven't been fully investigated (why not) so could be an over estimation. But they are cases where medical staff thought there could be a link.
Don't know how many more times this can be stated and yet the misinformation still be repeated, but they do not say this. That is the current number of deaths associated with vaccination. Association =/= causation.

It's like the posters who try and use reports of miscarriage after vaccination on similar threads, ignoring the fact that sadly 1/3 women miscarry whether they are vaccinated or not.

Trixiefirecracker · 12/11/2021 15:52

@CovidCorvid I think it’s the way you phrase things, it sounded as if people were dying left right and centre from being vaccinated and so the medical professionals decided under 18s we’re not going to be vaccinated because of those deaths. That’s misleading. Under 18’s generally don’t get that sick from covid, that was one of the main reasons, not fear of them dying from vaccines. I think your point was was made.

Trixiefirecracker · 12/11/2021 15:52

*badly

CovidCorvid · 12/11/2021 16:16

[quote Trixiefirecracker]@CovidCorvid I think it’s the way you phrase things, it sounded as if people were dying left right and centre from being vaccinated and so the medical professionals decided under 18s we’re not going to be vaccinated because of those deaths. That’s misleading. Under 18’s generally don’t get that sick from covid, that was one of the main reasons, not fear of them dying from vaccines. I think your point was was made.[/quote]
I totally think it was both. They talked about risks and benefits. The risks being vaccine harm, the benefits being a lack of benefits due to younger people not being that affected by Covid. That's certainly what they were saying on the news at the time.

The reason why this is relevant to the point is that there will be young carers, 18yos up to mid 20s who the same point about risk and benefits stand for to a large extent. So I can see why on a personal level they may be reluctant to have the vaccine.

It's all very well saying that they have to consider others but I don't think at any other time has any employee in any sector being asked to potentially prioritise the health of others over their own.

And I say that as someone who has to have a hep b jab to do my job which involves surgical procedures where I can't see my fingers as they're in a body cavity. At least the hep b vaccine is of benefit to me and also doesn't have even a small risk of clots, pericarditis, etc.

ollyollyoxenfree · 12/11/2021 16:19

@ecceromani

There was a care home manager on TV last week. They are part of a group and the management had organised for public health doctors and scientist to come into the homes to do talks on how vaccines work and present the scientific data on covid vaccines.

He said they wanted to make sure anyone giving up their career was doing in based on latest scientific evidence.
In his home they'd had 10 unvaccinated staff before the talks and now they only have 2.

Yes - there have been numerous sucessful public engagement events and there need to be more.

It's been found that a significant number of staff turning down vaccination were doing so based on misinformation - false claims about harmful side effects such as cancer and infertility and about vaccine effciacy propogated on social media. When they had the chance to ask questions and have this cleared up, many changed their minds.

More information campaigns are desperately needed, no one should be coerced into not being vaccinated (and losing their job), based on misinformation. No one can make an informed choice when they're surrounded by this tsunami of false claims about coronavirus vaccination..

I find it frustrating that vaccine misinformation is still rife on MN and probably isn't helping the situation.

Squeezyhug · 12/11/2021 17:16

@Ryannah
“Personally I’m happy to see any punishment for selfish antivaxxers. If carers don’t trust in modern medicine and won’t protect their vulnerable patients then they shouldn’t be working in the care sector. All their colleagues have been jabbed and so have the people they care for, they’re just being selfish and ridiculous”

That’s the sort of statement a troll would come out with 🤣
You obviously haven’t thought this through.

vera99 · 12/11/2021 17:25

MN has been a major source of misinformation for far too long in the name of free speech. They even allowed conspiracy nut jobs threads for many months. Glad to see the back of them. My argument here is the overall health impact of suddenly jettisoning vital staff as we head into winter. Johnson's making his usual weasel words whilst the Netherlands is about to go into a 3-week partial lockdown.

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-boris-johnson-issues-warning-about-coronavirus-cases-in-europe-and-urges-britons-to-get-their-booster-jab-12467037

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/12/partial-lockdown-in-netherlands-amid-record-covid-cases

Maverickess · 12/11/2021 17:55

This situation is just crazy.

Government and society "All care workers are selfish and stupid if they don't leap on the covid vaccine immediately as it's offered"
Carers "I have some concerns about having it"
G&S "Bloody anti vaxxers, don't want your type caring for our most vulnerable!"
C " I'm not anti vaxx, I have some concerns"
G&S "Well shut up about it, get it or get out, your choice"
C "Ok I've had it, but I'm really worried about how I'm going to provide care because many have left"
G&S "Fucking anti vaxxers peddling their nonsense!"
C "I'm not anti vaxx, I've had the vaccine, but things are really bad now, I'm worried about the impact of losing more staff"
Deafening silence with a 'Made to care advert playing in the background
G&S "Nothing to see here, we won't tolerate bad care, heads have rolled, lessons been learned, as you were"
Service users that have been there all the time "Excuse me, can someone take me to the toilet, there's no one around?"

Deafening silence

Trixiefirecracker · 12/11/2021 18:28

@CovidCorvid all vaccine carry risks as do all medicines. The Hep B vaccine also has been linked to quite severe side effects … Three central nervous system demyelinating diseases have been reported to occur following hepatitis B vaccination: a chronic demyelinating disease, multiple sclerosis, and two focal demyelinating lesions, optic neuritis and transverse myelitis. No medicines are without risk. I have attached the link re:hep B www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK236297/

Saltyquiche · 12/11/2021 19:44

All these unvaxxed ex care staff can earn similar wages in any high street supermarket. Less stress, less training, less responsibility. Despite being desperately needed, proper social care reform is a million miles away.

Social care staff need to be paid properly for their qualifications and training, after all a care workers strong skill set enables providers to meet extremely detailed CQC regulations. while poor retention (often linked to poor pay) negatively effects quality of service, adding layers of stress to already crisis led services.

Social care roles have become complex in the last 20 years, with safe guarding, administering medication, health and safety, providing individual person centred care, record keeping, professional engagement, key working and increasingly high levels of responsibility and stress considered the norm.

LAs need to take a cold hard look at care packages and allocate an additional two or three pounds more per hour of agreed staffing. In turn this additional money needs to filter directly into the hourly pay of staff delivering front line care.

MercyBooth · 12/11/2021 20:37

@EffOrfagain Equally anyone who was pushed into a care job by the Job Centre will see refusing the jab as their chance to get out.

Squeezyhug · 12/11/2021 20:51

@Saltyquiche

Well said !!
It’s appalling that skilled care workers are not rewarded for their skills and qualifications.

Many don’t realise what the job entails.

Sugarandtime · 12/11/2021 20:52

@EngTech

If you look at this another way

If the carers did not have the jabs, the death rate for the residents shot up and if it is CV19 related, there would howls of anger, and rightly so

There would be demand for all carers to be jabbed, which would be a tad late for the elderly residents who did not make it

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t

I totally see what you are saying, however it’s been months and months that they have still been caring for the residents without taking the injections and as far as I’m aware the number of deaths In Care homes has never shot it as a result. I can’t see how just like that on the 11th November it would suddenly change. The staff are are in PPE and and having regular testing.
Maverickess · 12/11/2021 22:10

I totally see what you are saying, however it’s been months and months that they have still been caring for the residents without taking the injections and as far as I’m aware the number of deaths In Care homes has never shot it as a result.
I can’t see how just like that on the 11th November it would suddenly change. The staff are are in PPE and and having regular testing.

And during that time the self isolation rules changed meaning that if you are exposed to a positive case, even sleeping in the same bed as one, off you go to work or face the concequences of being absent.
Anecdotal I know, but that's how it got into the place I work, and everyone was vaccinated. One person died and several others have held their decline from having it. That was the second outbreak we had. The first from an untested emergency admission with dementia, who we didn't have extra 1:1 funding to ensure we could isolate them - it went round like wildfire.

But nope, the only and real problems are the carers not being vaccinated.

Vivana · 12/11/2021 23:47

I left social care and have a much nicer less stressful job now and will finally have my Christmas day at home with my family instead of working non stop for 14 hours on Christmas day. I have had my covid jabs but walked out with other fellow carers due to the bad working conditions and pay

lolliwillowes · 13/11/2021 01:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

XenoBitch · 13/11/2021 01:45

@Lollolloll

Well they’re obviously not the brightest are they? They’ve had ample warnings and chances to get vaccinated and would rather not do it and be out of work before Christmas?

It’s their choice, but they shouldn’t be eligible for benefits.

Ugh, yuk. These people who are "not the brightest" have been the ones looking after your elderly relatives on less than minimum wage for years. If you don't like that, then look after them yourself. They looked after them through the height of the pandemic with no vaccine or PPE. Many carers also died from Covid themselves.

They are also the people who have been forced to work there by the Job Centre because they have the main requisites to get a job in a care home.. which is spare time and a clean DBS check.

Yes, lets sack the unvaccinated carers who we clapped for just last year. Clap em, and sack em. They get fired now and leave a chronically understaffed sector even more understaffed. There is no one queuing up to be a carer. The people who will suffer might not be the carers leaving (as has been said upthread, they get less stress and better pay and conditions working in Lidl), it will be the residents of the home... many of which are already confused and upset that the their favourite carer who they trusted is no longer there. Less staff means they end up left in bed for longer, sat in their own pee for longer. Even the vaccinated staff are going to end up burnt out and end up leaving. If you would rather your nan is looked after just vaccinated carers, then feel free to look after her yourself... because there are just not enough carers.... because you wanted them sacked.

Why not eligible for benefits? It is bizarre that you would wish poverty on anyone.

MercyBooth · 13/11/2021 02:16

@XenoBitch The ones who are all for saving lives only mean from Covid. They couldnt care less about the fact that poverty kills.

Saltyquiche · 13/11/2021 07:10

‘Lollolloll
Well they’re obviously not the brightest are they? They’ve had ample warnings and chances to get vaccinated and would rather not do it and be out of work before Christmas?’

^^ This is part of the problem, the lack of respect towards social care staff and the lack of understanding about social care roles. On the whole social care staff are competent, have specialist skills and usually work unsocial hours (Christmas, bank holidays, weekends, evenings).

It’s a complex role these days due to 20 years of fast evolving legislation, enforced through cqc inspection of regulations. To be truly effective employees need experienced, skilled, long serving and reliable staff who have their level 3 in social care (equivalent to three A levels). In addition employees require staff to be medication trained, health and safety trained, prevent trained, personal care trained, lifting and moving trained, food hygiene trained, safeguarding trained, infection control trained, keywork trained, safeguarding trained, whilst having a strong grasp of person centred care and communication with various professionals and families.

It is demanding and draining work with poor career prospects, badly paid, with promotion leading to increased stress and a wage which fails reflect managerial responsibilities.

Retention is a critical issue as high staff turn over and high agency use lowers the quality of care offered to the vulnerable people served.

Maverickess · 13/11/2021 12:29

There's another thread running at the moment about a care home and family concerns about hygiene - that's the real cost of this sector imploding, something that so many choose to ignore in favour of talking about the care workers that haven't been jabbed and what kind of punishment they should face and what kind of people they are - they're gone - when are we going to concentrate on who's left facing the concequences of an industry who's shoestring just snapped?

Pippi1970 · 13/11/2021 12:33

The unvaccinated in Australia can't dance in public or drink standing up.

BobandLeonard · 13/11/2021 12:44

Can't say that dancing in public is something I would want to do anyway or drinking standing up either, come to that. I'm vaccinated but would probably regret it if I had to dance.

MaxNormal · 13/11/2021 13:27

I've seen reported today that half a million care workers are not double jabbed, with most of those having had their first jab.

If that's the number lost to the sector than catastrophic doesn't even begin to describe it.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/more-than56000-care-home-staff-22139070?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

vodkaredbullgirl · 13/11/2021 13:35

Everyone in the care home I work in, (staff and residents) have all had their 3rd jab.

Reduceddutiesboredom · 13/11/2021 13:41

@vodkaredbullgirl

Everyone in the care home I work in, (staff and residents) have all had their 3rd jab.
Out of curiosity, do you know about everyone’s other vaccine history?

Have they all had the flu vaccine, whooping cough, chickenpox for example?