Mandatory vaccination

[amsadandconfused]

So I am not anti vac and have had my two doses and booster booked for next week. I do genuinely understand why a lot of my work colleagues are reluctant..Drs ,nurses ,carers etc . They are young people in their 20s/30s who are scared about the long term side effects ie infertility,blood disorders ..it’s very easy for people who are not in a job involving health care to be so critical of these lovely people .
Yes hepatitis B jab is mandatory for some but the hep jab has had many years of trials.
Can I ask everyone reading my post if you would be 100% happy if their 20 something children had this vaccine?

[quote milkyaqua]@Evesgarden. Overreact, much? Oddly enough, yes, I have heard of diagnostic pathology. You might want to bear in mind that you have no idea of the background of anyone posting on MN.

This woman has made incorrect statements.

Rest assured, no government in the world is making these decisions by walking out onto the street and asking Joe Bloggs, as you put it, for their advice. They are advised by expert bodies, with far more experience in pandemic modelling and management than some woman who works in a path lab.

Meanwhile, you might want to read up on your 'eminent expert':

www.jackiecassell.com/tag/dr-clare-craig/[/quote]
People that disagree with some one else views will go to great lengths to silence them.

She is not the only medical professional to take this stance.And more are coming forward and the ones that have been saying this from the start have been relentlessly attacked

What are they going to do when the 70,000 NHS staff who won't have the vaccine get booted from their job with the current back log of non urgent care cases? Or are you expecting them to be bullied in to it and succumb to the blackmail.

The vaccine does not prevent transmission of the virus. it only protects the individual.

I’d be delighted if I could book my 12 yo for two vaccines. Sadly she’s still waiting for the one dose deemed sufficient by the government.

@Evesgarden do you work for the NHS?

I do ....so do many of the people I know ..... it’s already becoming yesterday’s news....... we will be kicked down with something else soon.
I’m not saying Some nhs people won’t be up in arms ...But eventually by spring most will roll over and get vaccinated.....they’ve got bills to pay ....and where will they go to get like for like wages and benefits? I only work with one unvaccinated person.... she talked the talk for several months but is now resigned to getting the vaccine next year.....she earns 40k gets 33 days AL plus bank holiday...gets sick pay up to a year and a good pension....no way will she give this up for her principles.....neither will the majority of the 70,000. It’s a different story for non nhs carers .... they get shit wages and no benefits....They could be doing themselves a favour by getting out of care work

I think this might be the turning point when the government step off the gas with the forcing of the vaccine if a strike/walk out happens

Is there one planned? I would like to think that unions would stand up against this.

Very few NHS staff will leave iMO .... they will end up having the vaccine.

That's certainly been the case in France, Italy, New Zealand, Canada, Indonesia and all the other countries that have mandated covid vaccination for healthcare (and sometimes other) workers.

@Evesgarden

The same Dr Clare Craig who wanted to plant an idea in the public mind against the vaccines, hoping it would be translated into "fact" by those who believe disinformation?

And that’s a good thing? People seem to have forgotten what normal life looks like very quickly. Reminder: people did not need to be vaccinated to go into bars/restaurants/cinemas and weren’t being threatened with losing their job because they decided not to have a flu vaccine and could potentially be ‘putting vulnerable people at risk/overwhelming the nhs’.

@Evesgarden

Clare Craig is a member of HART.

[quote Confuzzlediddled]@Evesgarden

The same Dr Clare Craig who wanted to plant an idea in the public mind against the vaccines, hoping it would be translated into "fact" by those who believe disinformation?[/quote]
Quite.
Isn't she also the one who likes ivermectin?

People that disagree with some one else views will go to great lengths to silence them.

"She is not the only medical professional to take this stance.And more are coming forward and the ones that have been saying this from the start have been relentlessly attacked"

When it comes to people like Craig, it's really not a question of disagreeing with a subjective point of view. This woman is a doctor, who advocates telling the public lies in order to dissuade them from making certain choices.
Seriously, go ahead and make your own choices about vaccination- being prepared to take on board the consequences and responsibilities to others that come with that decision. But don't spread the opinions of people like this woman who, as a HCP, could actually contribute to putting people's health at risk because of the shit she and her fellow HART members peddle.

I don't understand why mandates for care home workers came in today but won't come in for NHS until spring? And those who say people will get vaccinated becaise of the mandates an estimated 60,000 care home staff are not fully vaccinated and so will be fired. This will lead to unsafe care and care homes closing because there isn't exactly queues of people wanting to take up the poorly paid, highly stressful jobs left behind.

This will lead to unsafe care

It's unsafe either way. A staff member who doesn't care enough about their vulnerable charges to get a life and health saving vaccine is hardly a safe or caring carer.

the poorly paid, highly stressful jobs left behind.

The solution is to start valuing these vital jobs. Pay well, offer better working conditions. Then employ people suitable for the job.

Separately, is it not the case that people walking out of a job can't claim out of work benefits for a certain period? Presumably those refusing to protect the country's most vulnerable will be sanctioned by DWP?

Both my DC in their 20s are double jabbed and keen to have the booster when their turn comes around. I'm happy, they're happy. Because we understand the science. I'm frankly shocked that there are so many healthcare workers who seemingly don't.

@Tealightsandd

This will lead to unsafe care

It's unsafe either way. A staff member who doesn't care enough about their vulnerable charges to get a life and health saving vaccine is hardly a safe or caring carer.

the poorly paid, highly stressful jobs left behind.

The solution is to start valuing these vital jobs. Pay well, offer better working conditions. Then employ people suitable for the job.

Separately, is it not the case that people walking out of a job can't claim out of work benefits for a certain period? Presumably those refusing to protect the country's most vulnerable will be sanctioned by DWP?

Those people 'refusing to protect the countries most vunerable' are the same people who have been there caring for these people, working day in and day out during the height of the pandemic at great cost to themselves while other people stayed at home. They weren't protected, weren't paid enough to live on and now you think they should be sanctioned?

A staff member who doesn't care enough about their vulnerable charges to get a life and health saving vaccine is hardly a safe or caring carer.

Oh stop. The vaccine is health/life saving for the individual who has it. It does not stop you getting infected or spreading it to your patients. And these people clearly cared enough about their patients to work through the pandemic with crappy ppe when no vaccine was available. How are they more of a risk to their patients now than then? Particularly when most of their patients have now been vaccinated.

@bumbleymummy

And that’s a good thing? People seem to have forgotten what normal life looks like very quickly. Reminder: people did not need to be vaccinated to go into bars/restaurants/cinemas and weren’t being threatened with losing their job because they decided not to have a flu vaccine and could potentially be ‘putting vulnerable people at risk/overwhelming the nhs’.

Life changes. Many things will soon no longer be possible. Global warming will mean that transcontinental flights become unaffordable and overseas holidays will have to become a rare treat for many of us. We will have to become used to consuming less meat.

7.24 BILLION have been vaccinated. I'm afraid that a handful of healthcare workers trying to claim exceptionalism will carry no weight.

@bumbleymummy

And that’s a good thing? People seem to have forgotten what normal life looks like very quickly. Reminder: people did not need to be vaccinated to go into bars/restaurants/cinemas and weren’t being threatened with losing their job because they decided not to have a flu vaccine and could potentially be ‘putting vulnerable people at risk/overwhelming the nhs’.

Not this comparison again. It's tiresome. For the record my booster is on Friday and I've had both a flu and pneumonia vaccine.

Particularly when most of their patients have now been vaccinated.

Some vulnerable groups get less protection from the vaccines. They rely on those around them to do their bit to help keep them safe.

Someone who chooses not to take safety precautions should not be anywhere near the vulnerable.

The primary purpose of caring work - care homes and hospitals both - is NOT to provide someone with a job. It is to perform an essential role....of helping to keep someone safe and cared for.

Hospitals and care homes have a duty of care.

@bumbleymummy

I think this might be the turning point when the government step off the gas with the forcing of the vaccine if a strike/walk out happens

Is there one planned? I would like to think that unions would stand up against this.

Of course they won’t 🤣🤣 Do you work for the NHS? The unions will talk the talk and that will be it.... they can’t even get us a decent pay rise FFS .....nurses and doctors don’t strike..... and certainly not over a vaccine....NHS are mostly bored with all this vaccine talk now....even the ones who initially said they wouldn’t get one...they are all realising that the alternative is not worth it.....where would a nurse go? To work in a crappy nursing home and earn peanuts and get no sick pay and shit pension provision? It’s just not going to happen.....there will be no strikes I can tell you now...or if there are....it will be a minority.....I’m not sure why all these non NHS people care whether NHS get the vaccination or not....It’s a choice....have the vaccine.....or dont

Hospitals and care homes do have a duty of care but it's something they are going to find very difficult to manage successfully when their workforce has been cut to the bone. I don't think anyone is suggesting that staff should be allowed near the very vulnerable without safety precautions. I would imagine anyone would agree that the most successful way of making sure a staff member is not infected with the virus, and therefore not a danger to their patients, would be regular testing and suitable PPE? This inability to understand and act on the fact that large numbers of vaccinated are also getting infected and spreading the virus is endangering lives.

I do agree that other measures are needed. Like you say regular testing and good PPE (ie. FFP2/3 masks) - and that needs to include visitors too.

Separate from the vaccine argument, there is a desperate need to urgently improve pay and working conditions.

It's well past time that essential job roles (care, hospital staff including cleaners, retail, HGV drivers, etc) were better valued.

@ilovesooty uptake of the flu vaccine in hcps has ranged from around 62-75% over the last few years. None of them were threatened with losing their job if they decided not to have it. Even though flu also puts elderly/vulnerable people at risk. So, yes, ‘this comparison again’.

I agree! These people have worked so hard throughout this whole nightmare & I think it's time they were properly looked after and valued.

@Tealightsandd Some vulnerable groups get less protection from the vaccines. They rely on those around them to do their bit to help keep them safe.

if you took the full quote you’d see that I was asking how they are now more at risk than they were last year when hcps weren’t vaccinated (because there wasn’t one available) and now patients are.

I’m not sure why all these non NHS people care whether NHS get the vaccination or not....It’s a choice....have the vaccine.....or dont

Because people don’t agree with anyone being forced to have the vaccine to keep their job? I don’t work in hospitality either but if it was mandated for them I would speak out against it too.