Mandatory vaccination

[amsadandconfused]

So I am not anti vac and have had my two doses and booster booked for next week. I do genuinely understand why a lot of my work colleagues are reluctant..Drs ,nurses ,carers etc . They are young people in their 20s/30s who are scared about the long term side effects ie infertility,blood disorders ..it’s very easy for people who are not in a job involving health care to be so critical of these lovely people .
Yes hepatitis B jab is mandatory for some but the hep jab has had many years of trials.
Can I ask everyone reading my post if you would be 100% happy if their 20 something children had this vaccine?

A job that involves looking after the most vulnerable. That requires taking all sensible precautions to help keep the vulnerable safely cared for.

It's a job, not Universal Basic Income.

@Tealightsandd

I do agree that other measures are needed. Like you say regular testing and good PPE (ie. FFP2/3 masks) - and that needs to include visitors too.

Separate from the vaccine argument, there is a desperate need to urgently improve pay and working conditions.

It's well past time that essential job roles (care, hospital staff including cleaners, retail, HGV drivers, etc) were better valued.

How much more would those needing care be able to pay? Costs in London are already around £50,000 a year.

Billions was available for companies set up by friends of the government - for the failed test and trace. Billions more for white elephants like HS2 (shaving just 20 minutes off a journey....and only if you can afford the expensive fare).

We are the world's 5th largest economy. A rich country, apparently.

Let's reprioritise where and how our taxes are spent.

Also, there's smoking. A net gain to the economy. A win win. Huge sums of tax revenue and lower pension and social care costs.

We would also save billions if we sorted out the public health housing and homelessness emergency. We need to boost the economy through a mass social housing build.

• Billions spent on housing homeless families and vulnerable individuals in expensive temporary accommodation.

• Billions and billions spent on housing benefits for high private rents.

• Billions more spent on tax credits/universal credit to prop up wages, which even with pay rises won't come close to catching up with private rentals.

• And then the many billions going on the knock on effects of housing insecurity including the negative impact on health - social services, mental health services, the NHS, the criminal justice system, and so on.

@Tealightsandd

A job that involves looking after the most vulnerable. That requires taking all sensible precautions to help keep the vulnerable safely cared for.

It's a job, not Universal Basic Income.

So testing people regularly to make sure they’re not infected would make more sense then wouldn’t it? The vaccine doesn’t mean you can’t get infected/transmit to a patient.

I think the blanket DNRs were far more dangerous to many patients than unvaccinated staff.

It's safest to adopt a multi pronged approach. Testing on its own isn't enough. Vaccines on their own aren't enough. Neither are 100% protective/effective. Both are needed when it comes to looking after our most vulnerable.

There will be many Nhs staff who are immune and don’t need to be vaccinated.

Many people aren’t aware that if you register a positive covid test you are classed as fully vaccinated for 6 months. You get a covid pass that’s the same as those given to the fully vaccinated and can use that for travel or events.

There’s no logic vaccinating people who are already immune. They’ve had nearly two years to look into natural immunity and antibody testing should be an option instead of mandating vaccines for folk that don’t need it.

@Tealightsandd

It's safest to adopt a multi pronged approach. Testing on its own isn't enough. Vaccines on their own aren't enough. Neither are 100% protective/effective. Both are needed when it comes to looking after our most vulnerable.

What about people who are immune after infection?

But how long at it how long are you immune for following infection? How long goes the natural immunity last?

Most research seems to suggest that it reduces, and again - it isn't enough on its own. And we know that some people don't gain antibodies following the infection, just as some don't get them following a vaccination. We know that it's possibly to get the virus more than once.

And we'd need to keep checking people via blood tests - did you get immunity when you caught it? Do you still have immunity now?

And st what intervals do we check?

But how long at it how long are you immune for following infection? How long goes the natural immunity last?

At least 6 months.

There’s really not been enough research. Personally I’d rather have regular antibody tests than regular boosters.

9+ months in the majority. Some studies have shown up to 12 so far. A recent study showed that it is broad so protective against multiple variants. If we're happy enough to accept the vaccine as proof of immunity even though we know it starts waning after a few months and not everyone develops antibodies then I'm not sure why aren't considering natural immunity in the same way.

And hcps have their antibodies for hepatitis checked and if they have them they don't need to have the vaccine.

@amsadandconfused

So I am not anti vac and have had my two doses and booster booked for next week. I do genuinely understand why a lot of my work colleagues are reluctant..Drs ,nurses ,carers etc . They are young people in their 20s/30s who are scared about the long term side effects ie infertility,blood disorders ..it’s very easy for people who are not in a job involving health care to be so critical of these lovely people . Yes hepatitis B jab is mandatory for some but the hep jab has had many years of trials. Can I ask everyone reading my post if you would be 100% happy if their 20 something children had this vaccine?

I agree with you and I think it's absolutely unfair to force anyone to get a needle full of something that hasn't been explored for long term side effects.

I'm not an antivaxxer at all and as a matter of fact I did the vaccine but it was my choice and I feel like we should respect others choices to get it or not.

Best wishes ~

@bumbleymummy

And hcps have their antibodies for hepatitis checked and if they have them they don't need to have the vaccine.

You’re saying that as if there’s a possibility of getting those antibodies through natural infection. HCPs get those antibodies by being vaccinated. That’s the only option,

@bumbleymummy

And hcps have their antibodies for hepatitis checked and if they have them they don't need to have the vaccine.

I was given the vaccine when I started my HCP training, but a prior blood test showed I already had antibodies. OH nurse just said to have the jab anyway.

I work as a clinical member of staff-just get it done or get another job. We mandate all sorts of things for the common good and vaccination is no different.

@PurpleDaisies

“ What is acute (short-term) hepatitis B?
Acute hepatitis B is a short-term illness that occurs within the first 6 months after someone is exposed to the hepatitis B virus. Some people with acute hepatitis B have no symptoms at all or only mild illness. For others, acute hepatitis B causes a more severe illness that requires hospitalization.”

“ If I have been infected with the hepatitis B virus in the past, can I get it again?
No. If you have been infected with hepatitis B in the past, you can’t get infected again. However, some people, especially those infected during early childhood, remain infected for life because they never cleared the virus from their bodies. These people are considered to have chronic infection and are at risk for developing severe liver disease.”

www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/hbv/bfaq.htm#bFAQa04

@XenoBitch but you were given a choice. There is an antibody test option and many hcps don’t get the vaccine/boosters if they still have antibodies.

If im prevented from entering anywhere when i cant actually access a second vaccine (not for want of trying) i will be lawyering up.

Hep B is not mandatory. It's advised. There are certain medical Jobs you can't do, basically high risk surgery with a chance you will cut yourself and bleed in your patient, without vaccination. Having said that, I fully support vaccination. This is the first ever mandated vaccine though

[quote bumbleymummy]@XenoBitch but you were given a choice. There is an antibody test option and many hcps don’t get the vaccine/boosters if they still have antibodies.[/quote]
TBF, I just accepted whatever as I had to have the jabs to start placement for the course I was on. I was surprised to find out I already had adequate antibodies for Hep B, when I had only had the first jab 10 years prior.

@raffegiraffe

Hep B is not mandatory. It's advised. There are certain medical Jobs you can't do, basically high risk surgery with a chance you will cut yourself and bleed in your patient, without vaccination. Having said that, I fully support vaccination. This is the first ever mandated vaccine though

I was training as an ODP (so would be scrubbed in and assisting in surgery... that is as exposed to blood etc as you can get). I did baulk at the jabs due to severe needle phobia, and I was hauled into the office at uni several times for "counselling" about it. I was told they could not make me, but they would not be letting up on the nagging until I got it.

Maybe a minority of care workers who were forced into the job by the Job Centre saw this as their way out

@XenoBitch yep! Another difference between needing a jab (voluntarily) once every 10+ years and needing one every 6-12 months or you’ll lose your job.