Mandatory vaccination

[amsadandconfused]

So I am not anti vac and have had my two doses and booster booked for next week. I do genuinely understand why a lot of my work colleagues are reluctant..Drs ,nurses ,carers etc . They are young people in their 20s/30s who are scared about the long term side effects ie infertility,blood disorders ..it’s very easy for people who are not in a job involving health care to be so critical of these lovely people .
Yes hepatitis B jab is mandatory for some but the hep jab has had many years of trials.
Can I ask everyone reading my post if you would be 100% happy if their 20 something children had this vaccine?

Repeating what I posted last night- what about the unvaccinated patients that come in needing urgent care, particularly for something other than covid. Everyone equal, right? Vaccinated/Unvaccinated colleagues currently work side by side to care for an unvaccinated patient. No judgement on the patients status, just care from NHS staff who will try to save a life no matter who it is or how they’ve ended up requiring medical attention.

Should vaccinated NHS staff prioritise the vaccinated patients from April onwards ?

Singapore are going to start charging people for their care:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/09/singapore-to-start-charging-covid-patients-who-are-unvaccinated-by-choice

There are already people on here that think unvaccinated people shouldn’t be treated - but it’s ok for people to smoke/drink/be obese and put strain on the nhs.

@OnceUponAWhine

Repeating what I posted last night- what about the unvaccinated patients that come in needing urgent care, particularly for something other than covid. Everyone equal, right? Vaccinated/Unvaccinated colleagues currently work side by side to care for an unvaccinated patient. No judgement on the patients status, just care from NHS staff who will try to save a life no matter who it is or how they’ve ended up requiring medical attention.

Should vaccinated NHS staff prioritise the vaccinated patients from April onwards ?

I am no conspiracy theorist, but I would not be surprised if that came in next. Singapore has already said unvaccinated people have to pay for any Covid treatment, whereas vaccinated don't. There was comments on a thread in AIBU from a nurse who said there as a petition going round at work to be able to refuse to treat unvaccinated people.

@bumbleymummy its not that controversial in Singapore, given that the public already pay for their subsidized medical treatment through a medical savings schemes, mandatory insurance. Covid is kinda of an exception. They are just not allowing the unvaccinated to enjoy this exception.

it’s ok for people to smoke/drink/be obese and put strain on the nhs.

Smoking taxes, sugar taxes, alcohol taxes. All help fund the NHS. Smoking in particular contributes hugely. Studies have shown that smoking is a net gain for the national economy (tax revenue + lower pension and social care costs).

And of course, smokers and the overweight don't infect fellow patients and the staff looking after them.

What is the long term plan for when Nhs staff continue to get covid infections despite being jabbed?

@FlorenciaFlora

What is the long term plan for when Nhs staff continue to get covid infections despite being jabbed?

Exactly. Wonder if they’ll bring in unvaccinated bank staff to cover?

The sensible (for economy as well as health) long term plan would be to do as other countries are doing. Follow WHO advice and adopt a vaccine plus (rather than our current vaccine just) approach. That way permanently reducing transmission and infection rates.

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

The risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus.

But

However, data show fully vaccinated persons are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2, and infections with the Delta variant in fully vaccinated persons are associated with less severe clinical outcomes.

And

Infections with the Delta variant in vaccinated persons potentially have reduced transmissibility than infections in unvaccinated persons, although additional studies are needed.

So whilst it's not yet clear, there's some suggestion that fully vaccinated are a lower transmission risk.

Also relevant for those who had astrazeneca, which although good isn't quite as effective as the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna).

a dose of adenovirus vector vaccine followed by a dose of mRNA vaccine elicits antibody responses at least as high as two doses of mRNA vaccine.

I think there’s other things we need to be discussing instead of obsessing about vaccines that clearly don’t work that well. There’s several other factors that have led to people dying.This report is quite shocking and personally I’d like some assurances that these sorts of things aren’t happening anymore.

www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2020/10/uk-older-people-in-care-homes-abandoned-to-die-amid-government-failures-during-covid-19-pandemic/

To those refusing the vaccine please just get it and stop show boating about how special and selfish you are. It's as if you're all enjoying the attention and drama.

@Arrowheart

To those refusing the vaccine please just get it and stop show boating about how special and selfish you are. It's as if you're all enjoying the attention and drama.

I’m sure that’s going to persuade precisely nobody. Do you honestly think that sort of comment will do any good?

@Arrowheart

To those refusing the vaccine please just get it and stop show boating about how special and selfish you are. It's as if you're all enjoying the attention and drama.

Please look into why some people are refusing the vaccine. It can be health anxiety, needle phobia, distrust of xyz etc.

Do you think calling people selfish, or names will actually convince anyone to go get the vaccine? I thought not.

www.channel4.com/news/care-homes-will-struggle-to-get-staff-over-mandatory-covid-vaccines-says-national-care-association-chair

The answer to unsafe care (either unvaccinated staff, staff shortages, or both) is to improve pay and working conditions - and therefore attracting people suitable for such an important job.

I posted suggestions on how to fund this earlier today.

To those refusing the vaccine please just get it and stop show boating about how special and selfish you are. It's as if you're all enjoying the attention and drama

A bit like those dancing grinning nurses then with their idiotic dance routines. What could have been more offensive then sitting at home worrying about your mum watching those jerks carrying their colleagues around who were pretending to be dead.

And now we’re seeing reports like this.

www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/20201204%20DNACPR%20Interim%20Report%20-%20FINAL.pdf

Who has been held responsible for this, what action has been taken?

@Tealightsandd

The answer to unsafe care (either unvaccinated staff, staff shortages, or both) is to improve pay and working conditions - and therefore attracting people suitable for such an important job.

I posted suggestions on how to fund this earlier today.

See my post upthread at 17.08.

[quote MercyBooth]www.channel4.com/news/care-homes-will-struggle-to-get-staff-over-mandatory-covid-vaccines-says-national-care-association-chair[/quote]
I think they will....if you are that set against having a job and you are a carer on NMW then you are just going to leave and get another NMW job in retail , hospitality etc.... but it’s a completely different ball game for registered nurses and doctors.... where would they go to earn what they do in the NHS and get all the benefits of annual leave, pensions and sick pay? Mostly they will just suck it up....they have bills to pay....they can’t afford to have such principles. I’m a Nurse, I am triple vaccinated...but I can understand why some have declined the vaccine up to now.....however come next April they will have to make the choice .

My 20 year old daughter is a carer and double jabbed. Her thought process was she would do whatever it took to protect those she looks after.

Sorry but if you look after vulnerable people you should have the vaccine and do what you can to protect them, you and others.

If you don't, go find a different job, there will always be someone to fill your shoes

Sorry but if you look after vulnerable people you should have the vaccine and do what you can to protect them, you and others.

There are other options than the vaccine. Many people are already immune and don’t need vaccinating.

Except the vaccine doesn’t stop transmission. It probably helps reduce transmission a small amount for a short time. It may increase infection by driving behaviour change (jabbed people more likely to socialise perhaps). Therefore mandating vaccination for carers is pointless. Why not leave it a choice but mandate twice weekly lateral flows for all?
mRNA vaccines have never been used in the population before and there is no long term safety data especially about multiple doses which will be needed as protection wanes. AstraZeneca is no longer recommended for younger age groups because of the high number of associated deaths, it should not be offered as an alternative!

Thirty-four per cent of people working in health and/or social care said they were under pressure to put DNACPR’s in place without involving the person. In addition, 71% of advocacy organisations and campaigners said they experienced DNACPR orders put in place or pressure to make them without being involved in the decision

www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/20201204%20DNACPR%20Interim%20Report%20-%20FINAL.pdf

The CQC found examples of inappropriate and unlawful use of DNACPR forms – including blanket DNACPR. They also found that staff incorrectly interpreting DNACPR prevented people getting access to hospital care and treatment. Reports were also received of Care providers seeking to apply DNACPR forms to patients without sufficient discussion or explanation with the individuals and their families

I do not want medical treatment forced on me by the same government that engineered the UNLAWFUL events above. The treatment of the most vulnerable people during the pandemic shows just how much the government cares about us.

I cannot stand to hear anyone that these things are happening because they care about us.

And of course, smokers and the overweight don't infect fellow patients and the staff looking after them.

They put a lot of pressure on the NHS though. Isn’t that what we were all trying to avoid for the last 18+ months?

where would they go to earn what they do in the NHS and get all the benefits of annual leave, pensions and sick pay?

Private sector?