Will vaccine passports be dropped any time soon?

[makemineadoubleshot]

Let's be honest - they're as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

A vaccine passport doesn't stop the spread - be that on planes or in large venues etc, so will we go back to testing?

Yes it's a pain in the backside, and it's easier to whip your phone out, but testing is currently massively more reliable at finding infected people than relying on a QR code which doesn't actually prove the person is negative at the time of them attending said event/journey.

I really am struggling with their effectiveness in trying to stop the spread.

Will we really need them for the foreseeable or will they admit they're not fit for purpose?

@Geamhradh

You forgot the "to a much lesser extent" Bumbleymummy. (Vaccinated v unvaccinated risk of contracting Covid/being seriously ill with it etc) You wouldn't want to get deleted for spreading misinformation (again) would you?

‘Misinformation’? hardly. Whether it’s to a lesser extent or not, proof of vaccination means little. As someone earlier pointed out, someone with COVID can currently enter somewhere with a vaccine passport and an uninfected unvaccinated person can not. How does that make any sense?

MrBob, iirc recent studies have shown that there is no significant difference between an infected vaccinated person and an infected unvaccinated person irt contagiousness/spread.

And just to spell out the bloody obvious, being against vaccine passports doesn’t mean you’re against vaccines in general!

I went to a venue on Saturday where I had to show my vaccine passport. They looked at it and said 'thank you' no one took a note of my name or a picture of it. I'm sure the door staff didn't memorise it. I did tag myself there on social media though 🤔 damn I gave the game away!

@Mrbob

Why would you want to keep unvaccinated people out? What has their choice not to be vaccinated got to do with you (bearing in mind that vaccinated people can still contract and transmit the virus)

Vaccines slow the spread and expose people to lower viral loads if someone who is vaccinated infects you. It’s all about a slow spread to get it endemic now rather than a quick spread among the unvaccinated who will get sick and add to the people in ICU more quickly.

No one is trying to control you. They are trying to control the pandemic. What an arrogant thought that they somehow derive a benefit from you being vaccinated beyond the public health positives. Damn that government (for once) trying to save lives

Quite.

It’s all about a slow spread to get it endemic now rather than a quick spread among the unvaccinated who will get sick and add to the people in ICU more quickly.

At this point, many unvaccinated people have already had the virus anyway. Also, the majority of unvaccinated people are in the younger age groups and are unlikely to end up seriously ill/in hospital unless they have underlying health conditions.

I think they should mandate monthly antibody tests for everyone and then issue a pass based on that. No antibodies no pass. Doesn't matter how you get the antibodies, just that they are there. It would be cheaper than handing out millions of lft everyday.

@Tryingtryingandtrying

I think they should mandate monthly antibody tests for everyone and then issue a pass based on that. No antibodies no pass. Doesn't matter how you get the antibodies, just that they are there. It would be cheaper than handing out millions of lft everyday.

Who would pay for these tests?

The government. £50 a test per person per month. As opposed to pcr at £67.50 and lft at £xx

I did test a lateral flow antibody test about 6 weeks post virus and pre-vaccine. It didn’t seem to work for me. I suppose work continues on developing it, or are they available anywhere now?
It does have possibilities.

Lft are antigen tests which is different to antibody.

You can buy blood tests from online pharmacy around £50.
Presumably go would get cheaper as buy in bulk

@ Tryingtryingandtrying

“ LFT are antigen tests which is different to antibody.”

This was a lateral flow test for antibodies. You had to draw blood to do it, but otherwise it worked like a lateral flow test for antigens. You photographed your result.

Oh OK apologies I didn't realise, the ones I was referring to were sent away and could identify the type of antibody you had apparently

@Tryingtryingandtrying

I think they should mandate monthly antibody tests for everyone and then issue a pass based on that. No antibodies no pass. Doesn't matter how you get the antibodies, just that they are there. It would be cheaper than handing out millions of lft everyday.

But immunity is more than antibodies, you could have no antibodies but still be immune due to T cells.

The point of Freedom/opportunity/Green passes should be that people are proving their immunity not that people have had vaccines which may or may not have worked though. Are there tests for T cells?

@Hairwizard

Anyone still thinking these are about fucking covid needs to give their heads a wobble. Seriously. They have FUCK ALL to do with health and everything to do with control. We cant let this happen. Not now not ever. They will never be temporary. Its nobodies fucking business whether a person is jabbed or not. They dont protect anyone but the person jabbed. So if you have been why are so bothered who is/isnt?

How is me showing a piece of paper to someone on the door at a venue (someone who, as a PP points out, doesn't even look at my name much less make a note of it) about 'control'?

I have concerns about those who can't have the vaccine for health reasons being discriminated against (you only have to look at how those who cannot wear masks have been vilified to know there's a chance it'll happen), but I have no concerns whatsoever that vaccine passports are about controlling the population. Because that's nuts.

@Tryingtryingandtrying

I think they should mandate monthly antibody tests for everyone and then issue a pass based on that. No antibodies no pass. Doesn't matter how you get the antibodies, just that they are there. It would be cheaper than handing out millions of lft everyday.

But if antibody levels drop people can have t-cell immunity.

@DavidDevantsSpiritWife it’s controlling who can and can’t enter those premises dependent on whether or not they’ve had a vaccine, not whether or not they are infected or immune. Places that we all had access to pre-covid without anyone testing us for any virus that we may be carrying that could make other people ill.

Actually, not even testing, without anyone even caring if we were carrying a virus that may make someone else ill.

[quote bumbleymummy]@DavidDevantsSpiritWife it’s controlling who can and can’t enter those premises dependent on whether or not they’ve had a vaccine, not whether or not they are infected or immune. Places that we all had access to pre-covid without anyone testing us for any virus that we may be carrying that could make other people ill.[/quote]
I'm CV. I'm glad that (unless exempt) only those with a reduced chance of spreading covid/lower viral load if they do have it are able to go to the venues I want to go to. It means I (and tens of thousands of others like me) actually can, and have a far lower chance of dying. That's what it comes down to.

Yes, other viruses could make me very ill pre-covid. But honestly, I don't know anyone with my condition who has died from flu (although I know it's a possibility, that's why before covid if I had flu like symptoms I had to contact the hospital). However I know of four people with my condition, young and otherwise fit and who would have had many, many years ahead of them, who have died of Covid ('of' not 'with', before you split hairs).

So what if you have to show a piece of paper to see a band or whatever. It means people can have a fuller life and may not die. I'm not sure what sort of person can't get on board with that, tbh.

So what if you have to show a piece of paper to see a band or whatever. It means people can have a fuller life and may not die. I'm not sure what sort of person can't get on board with that, tbh

Why should people either take a vaccine they don’t want have their lives restricted so you can have a ‘fuller’ life? Genuine question what makes it right to restrict one group of people so the other isn’t restricted?

Covid is just one more thing anyone can die of, vaccines have been freely given to protect those at higher risk of poor outcomes, if they don’t deliver it’s nobody’s fault.

Wasn’t there an outcry when the vulnerable wanted everyone on lockdown so they weren’t the only ones?

There are lots of ways that people can restrict their lives in order that other people can lead fuller ones. How far are we willing to go?

@userperuser

So what if you have to show a piece of paper to see a band or whatever. It means people can have a fuller life and may not die. I'm not sure what sort of person can't get on board with that, tbh

Why should people either take a vaccine they don’t want have their lives restricted so you can have a ‘fuller’ life? Genuine question what makes it right to restrict one group of people so the other isn’t restricted?

Covid is just one more thing anyone can die of, vaccines have been freely given to protect those at higher risk of poor outcomes, if they don’t deliver it’s nobody’s fault.

Wasn’t there an outcry when the vulnerable wanted everyone on lockdown so they weren’t the only ones?

I certainly didn't want 'everyone on lockdown'. Neither do I think people should have to sacrifice their freedom to protect me.

I just don't happen to think that showing a piece of paper is sacrificing freedom. If you choose not to have the vaccine, fine, crack on - you have every right to do so. But private companies have the right to deny custom to whoever doesn't abide by their rules of entry, and given that's what we're talking about, in England at least - as opposed to a government mandate - those who don't want to be vaccinated are free to socialise elsewhere.

I can choose only to go to crowded venues which have covid pass/immunity entry rules. Those who don't want to be vaccinated (as opposed to those who can't) can choose to go to other venues.

It's your choice not to have the vaccine. My disease is not a choice. That's the difference.

DavidDevantsSpiritWife

Restring choice based on vaccine status is restricting freedom.

No, your disease is not a choice as are many bad things in life but punishing people for not doing something you think they should do for your benefit is just wrong.

Your disease is nobody’s fault.

@userperuser

DavidDevantsSpiritWife

Restring choice based on vaccine status is restricting freedom.

No, your disease is not a choice as are many bad things in life but punishing people for not doing something you think they should do for your benefit is just wrong.

Your disease is nobody’s fault.

Of course it's nobody's fault, what a silly statement.

I don't think anyone should do anything for my benefit, as I've already said. I'm just exercising my choice to only go to busy venues which require vaccination or immunity.

Vaccine passports aren't mandatory in England. If you don't agree with a private company's rules, you can once again exercise your choice and not use them.