Masks back in Classrooms in secondary schools.

[storminabuttercup]

Our LEA have reintroduced masks in secondary schools, it's out first experience of this as DC us year 7. I'm absolutely not anti mask, DC willing wear one in shops etc and when moving about in school but is upset this morning about having to wear one all day, I'm guessing they will get used to it soon enough but I feel so sad about the whole situation, these kids have been through so much. It also makes me wonder if this is now the step before back to home learning.
I know we need to control the virus I'm not even complaining I'm just venting that this bloody thing is still here.

We’ve been wearing them since April. My daughter was dreading it, but is so used to it now that it doesn’t bother her.

I work at the same school and I hate wearing mine though. I find it difficult to project my voice to the back of the class and my throat is often strained by the end of the day. Thankfully I’m only part time.

It’s difficult to conduct a discussion, especially in larger classes and I have to ask pupils to repeat themselves, sometimes up to three times!

The more disruptive pupils in the junior classes have taken to quietly whistling or making silly noises under theirs and it’s difficult to work out who it is! Thankfully I’ve mostly senior classes this year though.

Every term I keep hoping the masks will go.

It doesn't mean that though (?) July would be approximately more than 6 months after the huge wave in schools before Christmas. Antibodies fall after 6 months I believe, which might explain the % of antibodies found.

Regardless of the reason for that figure, it's now 5 months later. In a 2 year long phenomenon I don't think it's a particularly relevant source of information.

You’d be better off looking for reinfection data by age.

@DavidDevantsSpiritWife

have a mask mandate (like in Spain) for indoor public spaces. No exemptions

So those who can't wear masks can't go to work/access health care or education/use public transport, even if they're disabled or don't drive? Don't be ridiculous.

Thank goodness you're not on charge.

Oh, and Spain absolutely does have exemptions. As pretty much all countries do. The ones that don't aren't to be admired - no country which does not treat those with disabilities or serious health conditions as equals and denies them basic rights such as medical care and education should be celebrated for doing so.

@trumpisagit

Of course other countries have exemptions, and quite rightly. Probably certified by family doctors to prevent the abuse of the system we've seen in the UK. You only have to look at certain threads on here with the "fuck that, I'm getting me a lanyard" mentality. It's a disgusting attitude to have, isn't it, to actually PRETEND to have a disability. Abhorrent.

Regardless of the reason for that figure, it's now 5 months later.

You don’t think it’s relevant that lots of kids who have been infected don’t have antibodies?

I think she’s just pointing out that you don’t actually know that ‘that lots of kids who have been infected don’t have antibodies’ based on the data source you’ve given. They can still be immune even after their antibodies have waned too. As Marsha said, it would make more sense to look at reinfection rates by age. According to ONS data, reinfection rates are very low and serious reinfection cases are even lower, which is very positive news.

that you don’t actually know that ‘that lots of kids who have been infected don’t have antibodies’ based on the data source you’ve given.

Ok, how about by July 2021 “ Over the full course of tests, an estimated 15.3 per cent of primary pupils and 17.29 per cent of secondary pupils in local authorities sampled had at least one test recording antibody levels "above the limit of detection"

So that’s between Nov 2020 and July 2021, less than 20% of kids ever tested positive for antibodies.

Chris Whitty said in September they estimated 50% of kids had been infected by then.

So antibodies rate < infection rate in kids. Or are you going to try to argue that more kids were infected in the summer holidays than were infected between Nov and July?

Well, more children were infected with the delta strain over the last few months - it is much more transmissible. And again, not having detectable antibodies does not mean that they aren’t immune. Basically, I don’t think you currently have the data to support your assertion.

@bumbleymummy

Well, more children were infected with the delta strain over the last few months - it is much more transmissible. And again, not having detectable antibodies does not mean that they aren’t immune. Basically, I don’t think you currently have the data to support your assertion.

Let's see yours that proves your immunity thesis then.

4 months ago a handful of children we knew had tested positive for covid.
By the end of half term a majority of the children I know have.
We are in a very different place (at least in the South West) than we were in July.

And yet infection rates over the recent summer holidays in secondary kids were roughly comparable to their infection rates leading up to Christmas so the idea that loads more kids were infected over the summer then were infected between November and July doesn’t really have the data to support it, does it?

My son's teacher caught it meeting up with family over half term and she is off now. She managed to avoid so far in a class but caught off family meet up. All of her family have it and all ok but naturally not working until required period.

Other son's school had a wave of cases about 2 - 3 weeks ago and now it has gone down in number significantly.

Still importantly, hospital is not struggling.

The loads more I was referring to is in Sept/Oct in South West.

Is your school properly ventilated @noblegiraffe?

@trumpisagit

4 months ago a handful of children we knew had tested positive for covid. By the end of half term a majority of the children I know have. We are in a very different place (at least in the South West) than we were in July.

Same here (also SW). And we've had masks in schools since they went back in September.

So I'm not sure what you're saying @noblegiraffe. Is it that most kids have actually not yet been infected? Or that they have not held on to their immunity after infection and therefore measures like masks should remain because they will be reinfected? Or is it until they are vaccinated?

If kids don't maintain antibody levels after natural infection, would they do so after vaccination? Also what about kids in primary who cannot be vaccinated? Are you advocating long term measures there so that they don't get infected?

I just don't understand the longer term view of this. I do support mask mitigation in an acute situation but I think many totally underestimate the negative impact of masks on learning and participation over the longer term. Of course everyone would get behind proper ventilation as a measure, but I can't see when that would ever happen.

What is this ventilation ? My windows (2 of them) open 2cm. My door opens onto an internal corridor. It's like a teenage smelly soup at the best of times.

Let's see yours that proves your immunity thesis then.

The place to look is reinfection data by age. I don’t think anything has arisen that shows children are being reinfected at higher rate.

This has been going on for a while so we might have seen it by now.

If it has been missed then the answer still isn’t masks long term.

@MarshaBradyo

Let's see yours that proves your immunity thesis then.

The place to look is reinfection data by age. I don’t think anything has arisen that shows children are being reinfected at higher rate.

This has been going on for a while so we might have seen it by now.

If it has been missed then the answer still isn’t masks long term.

No, and nor would we expect them to be.

I'm just waiting for bumbley's "everyone is immune for ages and ages" (sic) trope justifying why she doesn't think vaccination (and mitigations such as masks) are necessary.

Vaccination is the only valid long term answer. Obviously. But in countries which still have mitigations + double vaccinated kids, the numbers are lower. I'd like Bumbleymummy to explain why that possibly might be.

The place to look is reinfection data by age

It really isn’t. Unless you think it’s remotely accurate?

Sapere if antibodies meant faster reinfection in that age group wouldn’t we have seen it in data?

Is it that most kids have actually not yet been infected?

I’m saying that if bumbley is going to come on a thread and say everything is fine because 70-75% of kids have been infected then she really should have the data to back up that this means they’re immune, shouldn’t she?

The lack of antibodies being generated by infection in that age group therefore needs addressing.

Germany has that but numbers are high right now.

I think it’s a leap by pp to go from antibodies are low to reinfection is high.

Unless they can evidence it.

Let's see yours that proves your immunity thesis then.

I’m not the one who stated that most children don’t have antibodies/aren’t immune after infection. The ball is in noble’s court to prove that, not for me to disprove it. There are plenty of studies showing that immunity lasts for 9+ months in the majority of people and that children develop antibodies even after mild infection though. You can search for them yourself or I can give you links to a few. It’s been pretty widely reported at this stage!

The loads more I was referring to is in Sept/Oct in South West.

October is irrelevant to Whitty’s estimation of 50% infected by September. Remember the argument being made was that only 17% of secondary kids having antibodies at any point between Nov 2020 and July 2021 wasn’t a problem because loads were infected since then. But it seems, from the data, that it’s unlikely that only 17% were infected Nov-July and 33% were infected July-Sept, therefore quite a few infections Nov-July didn’t generate antibodies.

Is your school properly ventilated

Is your school properly ventilated

Apologies, neglected to answer.

I’m pretty sure it isn’t, particularly in some classrooms, however we are still waiting on the CO2 monitors to confirm.