Are we nearer the beginning, the middle, or the end of the covid pandemic?

[PrincessNutNuts]

They asked this on YouGov this week.

What do you think?

correct.

@Elephantsparade

I think it will be over when the healthcare system is largely privatised along an american model

I think you are probably right. That and when/if all kinds of tests are no longer free. I can’t see people happily testing all the time if they have to pay. Less testing = lower positive test results published by the government and suddenly they will announce it over.

Mind you, didn’t they downgrade it from a pandemic in spring 2020, in England at least

The vast majority are willing to accept really pretty high numbers of deaths in exchange for a restriction free life

Nope.. Not me. Happy to continue with some low level stuff like mask wearing and giving others that need it space.

@milkyaqua

Don't go tarring mankind as a whole. There are literally hundreds of things we do do to reduce deaths, worldwide countries have shut down to reduce death from this pandemic, and most human societies do take deaths seriously - have police forces to investigate them, even long ago cold cases. It's not us, it's you.

You can believe that if you want but it's demonstrably not true.

We currently have about 100ish covid deaths a day in the U.K. People are cracking on with life and are accepting of that number in general terms, they are not up in arms about it. If that became the "norm" that would be around 36,000 deaths a year. That seems like a relatively high number in isolation but there are 50,000 (often preventable) deaths from sepsis a year (just as one example) and that is accepted without question by pretty much everyone.

Are you as indignant about deaths from sepsis? From flu? From air pollution? If you accept those deaths why not deaths as a result of covid? The restrictions we had in place last Winter pretty much eradicated flu. Would you be prepared to keep those restrictions in place every Winter in order to reduce/eliminate deaths from flu? If not, why not? If yes, do you think the majority would agree with you?

Masks and WFH are not the "easy" solution people seem to think they are. Masks and WFH have remained in place in Scotland and Wales and it has made no difference to their case numbers in comparison with England.

U.K. - end
Worldwide- middle

@Quartz2208

It is interesting though because actually when I see your username I do consider your posts to be motivated by an underlying dislike of the current government which does sometimes cause you to be blinkered.

That could be indicative of your own way of thinking and your own ideological blinkers ascribing emotional and political motivations where there are none.

The government's covid response is objectively bad.

Objective people criticise it.

The end of the pandemic and the start of living with endemic.

The NHS is kind of dead now, isn't it? No GP appointments, no preventive healthcare, anything related to pain and you are told go home and take ibuprofen. What's the point? I'd prefer a system, which is semi-private. individuals pay a % of their salary straight into a health insurance and the employers add their half to it. I'd prefer a system that lets you access specialists much more easily and where children are looked after by paediatric 'GPs'.

@PrincessNutNuts yes it is objectively bad. No one (including me) is denying that. Indeed I have agreed with you on that point.

But that isnt the only factor at play here - there are so many other reasons why the UK is where we are and it is a mixed bag.

Everything you write (and I am not the only one who has noticed) has the Governments failings as being front and centre and the only reason for example we didnt handle it like New Zealand. That is you being subjective.

No one walks through like without biases, ideological blinkers as you call them. Life gives them to you. Our experiences shape us and they shape how we react to this pandemic. It is a key factor actually in how the UK has reacted.

The fact that you believe you have no emotional or political motivations whilst telling everyone that they do I think rather than aiding your views dont help them. Partly because your belief that you are always correct and are unhindered by them dont allow for any movement or listening to anyone else

Personally I don't think things will be near back to normal for another few years yet.

Yes this OP and half a dozen other posters are utterly predictable - one of them is on here too.

Of course 100 deaths a day from Covid is "acceptable" be a bit weird if none of us ever died wouldn't it? Don't remember in my 17 years of being on here realms of threads on how unfair it is that we die from other causes on a daily basis?

That's just because it's new.
People accept what's always been. Chuck in something new, something 'extra' and it takes time to adjust.
In time covid deaths will be seen the same as flu deaths for example. Very sad on an individual level of course, but to be expected. It just takes different people different lengths of time to accept it imo

It’s not about deaths, though. It’s about the ability of the health service to cope with the dying, other Covid cases and anyone else at the same time.

@Chocaholic9

Personally I don't think things will be near back to normal for another few years yet.

But we are very close to normal. Yes, some people are wearing masks and keeping their distance, but it's hardly a big deal to do that.

Yes, foreign travel is a bit more difficult with checking restrictions, testing, etc., but again, not really a big deal. Most people will be able to travel abroad.

Most people are basically living "normal" lives, with very minor changes.

Of course, some people are taking it more seriously, i.e. not going to pubs/restaurants, avoiding busy places, no foreign travel etc., but that's a minority and lots of people did that (or didn't) anyway before covid.

I think we're at the end of the pandemic now.

@ImTellingTales

It’s not about deaths, though. It’s about the ability of the health service to cope with the dying, other Covid cases and anyone else at the same time.

The NHS will never be able to do everything for everyone. There'll always be someone who dies because there isn't an ICU bed available, or dies because of ambulance delays, etc. It was like that pre covid and will be like that post covid. It's impossible to save everyone, even if funding was trebled again (like it was under Blair/Brown), there'll always be limitations.

What we need is for covid to take it's turn and not be prioritised over other things, like cancer, heart disease, etc. Not sure why a covid patient should get priority for a ICU bed over someone with pneumonia or a car crash victim or someone who's had a heart attack. The doctors/consultants in hospitals are making decisions all the time about who gets priority.

@Badbadbunny - I forgot to mention I'm not in the UK. Things are not back to normal where I live.

I think we're near the end. Norway has now classified it as similar to flu.

I think morally we need to be sending vaccines to poorer countries rather than vaxxing our children!!

@Badbadbunny
“What we need is for covid to take it's turn and not be prioritised over other things, like cancer, heart disease, etc. Not sure why a covid patient should get priority for a ICU bed over someone with pneumonia or a car crash victim or someone who's had a heart attack. The doctors/consultants in hospitals are making decisions all the time about who gets priority.”

We may not get there again, I don’t know, but there is a level of chaos that’s just not acceptable. If there are no ambulances available to collect anyone because they are queuing outside A&E then nobody gets priority. Even this UK government accepted that, as did every other government in Europe as far as I know, even Sweden.

If everyone died quietly at home as they mostly did from the Spanish flu, then the acceptable number of deaths would be a completely different matter.

Are you as indignant about deaths from sepsis? From flu? From air pollution? If you accept those deaths why not deaths as a result of covid?

Just to be clear, I am not 'indignant' about deaths from Covid. I am revolted by your attitude.

@milkyaqua

Are you as indignant about deaths from sepsis? From flu? From air pollution? If you accept those deaths why not deaths as a result of covid?

Just to be clear, I am not 'indignant' about deaths from Covid. I am revolted by your attitude.

Right, so no answer to any of the actual questions then? Got it.

@Chocaholic9

Personally I don't think things will be near back to normal for another few years yet.

Me either.

And that seems to be the majority view since most people on here and on YouGov have said we're still in the "middle".

@Badbadbunny
“What we need is for covid to take it's turn and not be prioritised over other things, like cancer, heart disease, etc. Not sure why a covid patient should get priority for a ICU bed over someone with pneumonia or a car crash victim or someone who's had a heart attack. The doctors/consultants in hospitals are making decisions all the time about who gets priority.”

Covid patients don't have priority over those right now - the beds go to whoever has most need on the day. If you don't want any of those people competing for beds to be covid patients, we need many fewer covid cases. Or are you thinking that the covid patients should just no longer qualify even for consideration for an ICU bed? If so, do you think that people like teachers, prison officers, police officers, carers and shop workers (or customers!) are really going to want to go to work knowing they're risking catching covid but might not get full treatment for it if they get it badly? That seems like something that will do the opposite of helping things go back to normal.

[quote Quartz2208]@PrincessNutNuts yes it is objectively bad. No one (including me) is denying that. Indeed I have agreed with you on that point.

But that isnt the only factor at play here - there are so many other reasons why the UK is where we are and it is a mixed bag.

Everything you write (and I am not the only one who has noticed) has the Governments failings as being front and centre and the only reason for example we didnt handle it like New Zealand. That is you being subjective.

No one walks through like without biases, ideological blinkers as you call them. Life gives them to you. Our experiences shape us and they shape how we react to this pandemic. It is a key factor actually in how the UK has reacted.

The fact that you believe you have no emotional or political motivations whilst telling everyone that they do I think rather than aiding your views dont help them. Partly because your belief that you are always correct and are unhindered by them dont allow for any movement or listening to anyone else[/quote]
The thing is. I usually am correct.

I'm pretty confident I'm correct now.

(We'll probably have to wait until after COP26 to find out.)

Whatever qualities other people attribute to me in their own minds is their business.

I just express my opinion like everyone else.

P.S. The people in charge and the policies they enact are the reason the U.K. took some of the biggest advantages on earth and turned them into one of the worst results.

Government policy is the single biggest deciding factor in how a country weathers covid.) Not least because it guides human behaviour. ( Which is the second biggest.)

Bad government can take an educated, rich, healthy population, with a world class health system and decades of pandemic preparedness...

...And turn it into one of the biggest death tolls, largest economic hits, most social disruption, some of the most frequent, longest, hardest lockdowns on the planet, unprecedented waiting lists and so far - three academic years of disrupted education for our children.

And most of us think we've got a lot more of it to come.

It is your opinion @PrincessNutNuts exactly. And it isnt about you being correct or ending up correct. It is that you seem to think that your dislike and blame of the Government in no way changes or guides that.

I don't actually disagree with the majority of your points, its just for me (and I think others) your objectivity when it comes to the Government

Government policy is the single biggest deciding factor in how a country weathers covid.) Not least because it guides human behaviour. ( Which is the second biggest.)

Take this for example - I see your approach as always following this that the Government mistakes guide human behaviour. Rather than it being IMO more symbiotic. The government aim is always to ensure it remains in power so it will be guided by what is considers it voters want. Neither exist in a vacuum.

Bad government can take an educated, rich, healthy population, with a world class health system and decades of pandemic preparedness...

Neither can I believe that these existed before any of this either. The situation we face is because of years of neglect and failure to prepare for anything other than a flu pandemic