AIBU That we learn to accept COVID is here to stay!

[Jakie7700]

That now a massive number is double vaccinated those who want to be and that teenagers have started to be offered them, it seems so ridiculous that kids are still losing out on school because they are being sent home as they have a minor cold with minor cough. Covid will still be around in years to come, so will children still be sent home then with a mild cough due to colds?

Many missed days of school waiting for PCR results, parents usually mothers missing work over and over. Nobody seemed to care two years back when these same children were spreading flu, chicken pox etc which can all kill or cause serious complications both in adults and children.

Nothing is going to change you can get COVID again like a cold. Just last week I heard of two friends kids being sent home because of mild cough (coughed three/four times the whole day) missed days of school waiting for results only to be negative and then told this will happen every time they have a cough which as most will know in primary children will be alot over winter! These same parents who have nearly lost jobs due to having to juggle childcare through lockdowns. Surely it is just time to accept COVID is isn't going anywhere and stop making kids espeically suffer.

@MrsHerculePoirot

I’m sure there was some ONS data about how risk had changed recently and teachers had increased the most - I can’t find it anywhere now though?!? I remember reading it out to DH…

I remember reading this too. It was an article quoting from ONS study.

@MrsHerculePoirot

I’m sure there was some ONS data about how risk had changed recently and teachers had increased the most - I can’t find it anywhere now though?!? I remember reading it out to DH…

That’s interesting. I hadnt seen anything like that..

Here: schoolsweek.co.uk/education-staff-now-more-likely-than-other-workers-to-have-covid

Here is the ONS data referenced: www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/datasets/coronaviruscovid19infectionsinthecommunityinengland

I wonder if anyone is looking at the increased likelihood of parents getting covid.

@surreygirl1987 I don't blame the school though just the ridiculous policy of no household isolation.
They have reinstated this now until negative test received the damage is already done sadly.

Interesting. So this is data from a two week period from 20 Sept- October 3. Will be interesting to see how it pans out longer term.

Also interesting that the suggestion is that other settings may have become lower risk than previously, due to the impact of vaccines, hence the relative risk of education settings increasing..

Yes - it’s a massive increase relative risk wise. Especially when vaccinations I suspect are fairly consistent across adult population. So despite school staff being vaxxed the same as other occupations their risk is not decreasing.

As far as I can see the main difference is we are working in poorly ventilated, crowded spaces with unvaccinated sections of the population. And STILL people don’t think we should try to put any mitigations in place…

'And STILL people don’t think we should try to put any mitigations in place…'

I do!

Berating a parent for deciding to make a judgement call on using LFT rather than a PCR does not ultimately change this.

But we know that by the time a child, or adult, has symptoms the reliability of an LFT is reduced. The government specified that a PCR should be used. It isn't supposed to be a parent judgement call. We also know how that there are a lot more symptoms than the big 3, especially when it's in children. So we should be testing for those other known symptoms s, all of which have been published in mainstream media for months now.

Parents presumably would rather their children didn't miss a lengthy period of time from school, or don't want their children being taught be a series of supply teachers. But if they continue to ignore the testing advice then that's what will happen, especially if the vaccine affects start to wane.

I was off for 7 weeks. Colleagues were off for 2-5 weeks in general. Many of us are still struggling a tear later - energy levels haven't returned, breathing issues etc.

Many teachers, TAs and other pupils are more vulnerable to Covid too. That's another reason why we should be following advice and checking better whenever any of us are ill.

Keeping everyone as well as they can be means that education for all is less likely to be affected.

As for school staff getting Covid less. Anecdotal evidence suggests it's by the case.

Only 4 members of our school staff now haven't had Covid. Of my family and friends the groups who have had Covid have predominantly been medics and school staff. Children, esp teens, and their families appear to be the biggest hit group I know personally at the moment.

@beentoldcomputersaysno

So many farcical things have been said - as though kids weren't human (can't catch it, can't spread it, don't get ill etc). Kids are human, as are teachers. I think the long term fallout from this mass infection in schools policy will be awful. We need to live with covid in a sustainable way. Not like this.

Realistically how do you avoid mass infections in schools? Sure, you can put measures in place to dampen the speed of spread somewhat, masks, household isolation etc., and i see the sense in a degree of mitigation to ensure schools can remain operational, but unless really draconian measures are put in place, we'll be at the same point in terms of the numbers infected by the end of the school year. Cambridge University researchers have estimated that 76% of 5 to 14 year olds have been infected so, if that's true, the 'damage' is largely done.

I think there are still some for whom "flatten the curve" will never be enough, and want to put measures in place to suppress Covid completely, or to negligibly low level.

.... and I think there's a misconception that because things in many schools are scarcely manageable at the moment due to high case numbers, that this will be the reality for schools forever unless we introduce masks, restrict activities, stop assemblies etc. without appreciating that it will burn out naturally with a few weeks, and the school should be largely back to normal within a month.

@Warhertisuff - it hasn’t burnt through my children’s school, yet, and I do not appreciate the notion of it burning through the school at the height of the winter flu season, plus having their teachers off sick for weeks, when they are both in important exam years, thank you very much.

You are right @abraxan but at the moment it's one cold/ virus after another in my house and at work so probably the same for most families. Regardless what we should do reality is most families won't PCR test every time.
I agree with @Warhertisuff it's too late to stop spread in schools now by bringing back masks and the like. I know it's awful when colleagues and students are off in huge numbers and you feel like a sitting duck but that was 12 months ago for me and I did get covid. This term we have minimal disruption because it's run through and then dropped. So far no indications of reinfections. Same will likely happen everywhere else.

Boosters should be offered to teachers that want them. And trying to prove that teachers were never at greater risk of covid like @bizawit is doing is unhelpful.

And trying to prove that teachers were never at greater risk of covid like @bizawit is doing is unhelpful

That’s grossly unfair @Brickskithouse The reason the conversation came up is a pp said:

This ridiculous and dangerous message that teachers are no more likely ro catch covid than any other profession was spread by the government though. Obviously anyone who actually believed that is a complete fool, but it is awful to have such lies spread by those we should be placing our trust in

Totally reasonable to point out in response that this is what the balance of the data/ evidence suggests.

Annnyways.

Imvho, the JCVI created an utter fuck up for schoolchildren with its response to vaccination for them - all it achieved was to frighten people and increase the likelihood of vaccine refusal in all age groups; protect a minuscule proportion of children from a vaccine side effect that is also a virus side effect; make overseas trips infinitely more difficult for schools to organise; and increase massively and unnecessarily disruption and illness in schools. If everyone wants school shows, concerts, trips and clubs to continue, why did we have to go out of our way to maximise disruption, by not even permitting those willing to have the vaccination to actually get it?

Yes, all respiratory diseases are running rampant I agree, and the NHS is close to collapse. I love how they've told the ambulance service to stop the backlog - how are they supposed to do that, wave a magic wand? Maybe teachers could lend paramedics their magic anti-covid wands that protect them in schools? I'm sure they'd work equally well to magic up extra hospital capacity.

The measures that prevent covid (masks, bubbles, isolation) will also prevent the spread of other diseases that are putting pressure on the NHS. I do have sympathy with families having to test for every cold - it shouldn't be on families as the only line of defence, there should be co2 monitors, air filters and proper ventilation in schools.

Carrying on 'as normal' is sticking your head in the sand. The UK is as far from normal at the moment as I've ever seen it and pretending covid doesn't exist is a large part of that.

This term we have minimal disruption because it's run through and then dropped. So far no indications of reinfections. Same will likely happen everywhere else.

Maybe has more to do with your students being vaccinated before the unmitigated return to the classroom, unlike schools. Perhaps secondary schools may have the same luck when the vaccination programme is up and running for the younger age group, primary maybe won’t be so lucky (and the impact on parents and grandparents of younger children).

@Walkaround

Imvho, the JCVI created an utter fuck up for schoolchildren with its response to vaccination for them - all it achieved was to frighten people and increase the likelihood of vaccine refusal in all age groups; protect a minuscule proportion of children from a vaccine side effect that is also a virus side effect; make overseas trips infinitely more difficult for schools to organise; and increase massively and unnecessarily disruption and illness in schools. If everyone wants school shows, concerts, trips and clubs to continue, why did we have to go out of our way to maximise disruption, by not even permitting those willing to have the vaccination to actually get it?

I do agree with what you say about the impact of the decision. And I do think a voluntary vaccine programme for 12-15 year olds is the right call. But I still think this is a bit of an unfair judgement of the JCVI. They are a scientific , not a political body, and their mandate was to evaluate whether there were sufficient health benefits to children , balanced against risk, to justify a vaccine programme based on the scientific data. I don’t think their evaluation of the science of the matter was wrong..

Based on the evidence we have..

But we know that by the time a child, or adult, has symptoms the reliability of an LFT is reduced

This isn’t true. LFTs are more accurate once symptoms have developed (they become less accurate again once symptoms have been ongoing more than a week).

@Bizawit - the JCVI is not fit for purpose during a pandemic if, despite the number of experts on the panel, it is incapable of working out the likely impact of its pronouncements. It was perfectly capable of assessing the impact on schools of its decision-making process. Also, in pure science terms, the MHRA had already deemed the vaccine safe for 12 year olds and above, so the only contribution the JCVI made was obfuscation and delay.

@CarrieBlue I am specifically talking about my children's secondary school, as well as the sixth form where I work. Their school had two huge covid waves last autumn and in the summer. This is how we caught covid as a family, pre vaccines, as did most of our friends. It was a miserable and difficult time. However, the school has had extremely low cases since September and is operating normally this year. Their vaccine programme hasn't started so it isn't that.

I have some sympathy for the position of both teachers and parents. I understand both. Attempts to deny that teachers are at increased covid risk are unhelpful. But so is your aggression towards any other position than your own.

@Brickskithouse your disingenuity about where exactly you teach is unhelpful - there is no aggression on my part, just a wish for transparency of position.

Hi @CarrieBlue I work in a sixth form college. I have two DC. They are at secondary. They are both in the same area. They've had similar issues with covid though the school had it worse. There's no disingenuity on my part just as there is no aggression on yours.

@Warhertisuff

.... and I think there's a misconception that because things in many schools are scarcely manageable at the moment due to high case numbers, that this will be the reality for schools forever unless we introduce masks, restrict activities, stop assemblies etc. without appreciating that it will burn out naturally with a few weeks, and the school should be largely back to normal within a month.

See, I think this is a misconception shared by Whitty and Vallance, who were expecting a very difficult winter, and weren't expecting covid to burn itself out before December.

Personally, I would tend to listen to them? As they seem to know what they are talking about, and all the people hailing normality within a month have so far been dismally wrong.