AIBU That we learn to accept COVID is here to stay!

[Jakie7700]

That now a massive number is double vaccinated those who want to be and that teenagers have started to be offered them, it seems so ridiculous that kids are still losing out on school because they are being sent home as they have a minor cold with minor cough. Covid will still be around in years to come, so will children still be sent home then with a mild cough due to colds?

Many missed days of school waiting for PCR results, parents usually mothers missing work over and over. Nobody seemed to care two years back when these same children were spreading flu, chicken pox etc which can all kill or cause serious complications both in adults and children.

Nothing is going to change you can get COVID again like a cold. Just last week I heard of two friends kids being sent home because of mild cough (coughed three/four times the whole day) missed days of school waiting for results only to be negative and then told this will happen every time they have a cough which as most will know in primary children will be alot over winter! These same parents who have nearly lost jobs due to having to juggle childcare through lockdowns. Surely it is just time to accept COVID is isn't going anywhere and stop making kids espeically suffer.

@Nosquit
Well said
@noblegiraffe
No you have come onto this thread like many others that are regular posters on the COVID board to bully anyone who dares question when we should start to live our lives again! And that doesn't mean go back to exactly like it was pre covid.

@noblegiraffe

Schools sending pupils home with a cough to get a PCR are wrong, according to the OP.

But government guidance is to get a PCR with a cough, not ignore it because it came with cold symptoms.

Incidentally, how many pupils are missing 1-2 days a month of school in order to get PCRs? Do you have any data for this claim?

I believe we have covered the “cough”point to death.

On the second point- no I don’t have data to support that claim! Nor did I say it is what is currently happening. If you read the thread, you will see that a pp pointed out that a few local authorities are now advising PCRs for children with any virus symptoms . I said I thought that was an unreasonable ask. Someone asked why. I explained that if we were to roll that principle out, it would be likely to result in children missing a lot of school, because children get very frequent colds etc, and PCRs usually take at least 24 hours to return results.

No you have come onto this thread like many others that are regular posters on the COVID board to bully anyone who dares question when we should start to live our lives again!

It is now 'bullying' to ask the OP to clarify their opinions as they seem contradictory.

@walksen
I have not felt the need to respond to every point every poster has made. That is their opinion and is it nice to hear what others think even if I do not agree with it.

What I do not feel the need to do is go one step further and keep on and on about how wrong they are and how right I am etc if some posters behaviour wasn't so nasty I would actually make the time to respond to any points I agreed with them on.

To those who are saying that schools are all doing different things.

Its hard to do anything the same when not only is the guidance is so vague, but the local authorities are all giving different vague guidance and then still brushing off the responsibility to the various heads.

Put on top of this the amount of children and parents that refuse to test and you have no idea of how many people in schools actually have covid and by that I mean that we know that there are more cases than are testing positive.

Biz you said it If you miss 1-2 days of school every month , yeh it is.

But now you're saying no I don’t have data to support that claim! Nor did I say it is what is currently happening.

So you're claiming that it is unreasonable to ask pupils in high covid infection areas to PCR test for an expanded list of symptoms because they may have to miss 1-2 days of school a month although you have nothing to support that?

@noblegiraffe
So you are only calling me out on my contradictions because it's my post and that's why you haven't called anyone else out on them that agrees with you?

" I explained that if we were to roll that principle out, it would be likely to result in children missing a lot of school, because children get very frequent colds etc, and PCRs usually take at least 24 hours to return results"

Surely that approach is only appropriate where you have large outbreaks. If you have already got 4 or 5 kids testing positive in a class then it is more likely to be covid than a school who haven't had a case. This is likely public health bodies issuing local guidance

In theory you could treat those pcr's like close contacts ; allowed to go into school while you await results. You could further make children exempt from them if they have had covid the last 6 months.

I wouldn't think it necessary though. By Christmas the vast majority of kids will either have had covid or the jab.

[quote Jakie7700]@walksen
I have not felt the need to respond to every point every poster has made. That is their opinion and is it nice to hear what others think even if I do not agree with it.

What I do not feel the need to do is go one step further and keep on and on about how wrong they are and how right I am etc if some posters behaviour wasn't so nasty I would actually make the time to respond to any points I agreed with them on.[/quote]
OP the nastier posters will always be the most vocal and persistent

If I were you I would bow out now. I happen to agree with you but the hive mind that dominates Mumsnet has declared you to be unreasonable so you're on a hiding to nothing, life's too short and you'll never convince some people. It's a pity they can't stay civil though 🤷‍♀️

So you are only calling me out on my contradictions because it's my post and that's why you haven't called anyone else out on them that agrees with you?

You have said I have not felt the need to respond to every point every poster has made.

And yet you are expecting me to?

You posted a thread. I engaged with your posts, trying to clarify what your actual opinion is. You're now claiming that's bullying.

"What I do not feel the need to do is go one step further and keep on and on about how wrong they are and how right I am etc if"

Except when that poster is noblegiraffe, apparently.

*OP the nastier posters will always be the most vocal and persistent

If I were you I would bow out now. I happen to agree with you but the hive mind that dominates Mumsnet has declared you to be unreasonable so you're on a hiding to nothing, life's too short and you'll never convince some people. It's a pity they can't stay civil though*

Exactly this.

"OP the nastier posters will always be the most vocal and persistent"

Can you point out where any of us who have been "vocal and persistent" have been nasty? Or any examples of bullying?
I believe someone was deleted yesterday, but I've no idea who that was.

@noblegiraffe

It is ridiculous that after all this time kids are still missing out on education when most of adults have been double vaccinated.

And yet you also say that you think kids with covid shouldn't be in school.

This is going around in circles. You need to have a coherent position. If you think it is ridiculous that kids are missing out on education when adults are double vaccinated then you have to accept that you are arguing for kids with covid to be in school.

If you don't want kids with covid to be in school then you have to accept that you are arguing for mitigations which at least involve finding out whether a kid with covid symptoms has covid before allowing them in school, and that this will involve kids missing some school.

All your hedging around acceptable levels of cough (and pushing to not err on the side of caution where testing with a cough is concerned) is essentially saying 'schools should be trying to diagnose covid instead of using covid tests to diagnose covid'.

This is what I want the OP to address.

@Lilifer
You are probably right

@CallmeHendricks

"OP the nastier posters will always be the most vocal and persistent"

Can you point out where any of us who have been "vocal and persistent" have been nasty? Or any examples of bullying?
I believe someone was deleted yesterday, but I've no idea who that was.

Not referring to you callme in my post but there have been a few others and one in particular (think it's fairly obvious from recent posts ) who seems more interested in point scoring than sharing views and discussing or debating. It's tedious and just shuts down honest debate so pointless to engage with it imo

No, I see a debate and that the OP is appearing a little out of her depth, to be honest, so yes, it might be an idea for her to bow out at this point.

And if you mean Noble, I don't see any evidence of her bullying or being nasty, although I acknowledge that there were some unpleasant remarks made by other posters earlier in the thread.

@CallmeHendricks
Lovely condescending comment that I am out of my depth not goady at all for you a teacher isnt it.
Intresting isn't it that grown woman on here seem to be so ok with ganging up on someone who they know nothing about just because you disagree with me.

Multiple people have agreed with that point. But again you won't take it on board as that is what you have come on this thread purposely to do.

Anyway I have to go to work. But just wanted to say anyone that is worrying about losing your job if you have to keep taking time off because children have been sent home or you have lost pay and cannot afford things ie rent/food. There are lots of charities like who I work for and support networks that can help you. Just have a Google of ones in your local area and hopefully they can be of some help to you.

OP, you can always report posts that you feel are aggressive. I’ve done this many a time and MNHQ will look into them.

I feel this debate is just going around and around.

To summarise (have I got this right?):

National guidance: PCR test for main symptoms
Local guidance (if PHE deem areas have high cases): PCR for all symptoms

Cough (new continuous or 3 bouts in 24 hours): PCR (as per national guidance).

OP thinks the ‘cough rule’ should go as children have coughs and colds? That is true but at the moment we can’t differentiate between a cold and Covid (Delta variant)) at the start (unless we test) so we still need to so until our cases are low enough that the NHS doesn’t become overwhelmed we still need to test.

The last data i read said that 96 children have died of covid in the UK, a large number of these since september. Additionally one in seven are suffering from long covid. On top of this we have the children with delayed treatment of other illnesses caused by the impact of covid.
LIVING WITH COVID means trying to create a balance between pre covid 2019 lifestyle and lockdown lifestyle. We can not yet live as 2019 without creating surges that create problems such as cancelling of routine and neccessary medical care and long delays for medical care. We cant live in permanent lockdown as that creates other problems such as missed education, loss of income.

What we need is to balance is some mitigations and monitoring so that we can increase and decrease mitigations as appropriateto keep case numbers, hospitilisations at a manageable level for the time being. It is highly unlikely that this is going to be required for years but it is required niw and through this winter.

I expect that the gov will act too late on the data again through and we will have a hellish winter. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending it is 2019 is only going to increase the cases and risk to all. I dont want to lockdown again, i have no idea if this will happen or not, do i think it should happen yes if it is neccessary but i would prefer more mitigations now to try and avoid it if possible.

I would prefer people tested PCR tests if symtomatic or close contacts as per guidence. I would be very annoyed if my childrens school werent sending home a child with a cough to be checked. I would be annoyed at parents sending in a child without checking for covid.
I know their are parents dping this sadly but hope it isnt in our area.

@Jakie7700

Anyway I have to go to work. But just wanted to say anyone that is worrying about losing your job if you have to keep taking time off because children have been sent home or you have lost pay and cannot afford things ie rent/food. There are lots of charities like who I work for and support networks that can help you. Just have a Google of ones in your local area and hopefully they can be of some help to you.

And individual schools will also help - we have financial departments, bursaries and pastoral teams.

@motherrunner
Yes this is true but alot of people that come to help from us are embarrassed to tell their child's school or ask for help. Just wanted to let others know you can get help elsewhere if you are worried or embarrassed by asking the school.

@CallmeHendricks

No, I see a debate and that the OP is appearing a little out of her depth, to be honest, so yes, it might be an idea for her to bow out at this point.

And if you mean Noble, I don't see any evidence of her bullying or being nasty, although I acknowledge that there were some unpleasant remarks made by other posters earlier in the thread.

Well now that is just an incredibly condescending post and you're just showing your bad faith there now. The Op is well able to defend herself so I won't bother doing so and will bow out now myself but really you do not come across well in that post at all.

What we need to do instead of advocating for less testing is to hold our incompetent Government to account.

I’m a teacher - DH is too - we also take unpaid leave. Luckily we can see it through. But the answer isn’t to scrap testing and put more people at risk, it’s to help those who need to isolate.