Why do restrictions have to be introduced?

[Dancerinthedark01]

Vaccines were meant to stop the spread.

Vaccines were meant to prevent hospitalisation.

Fine - if they’re not working let’s admit that. Then I understand the need for restrictions again.

But if vaccines work why are we back in this position?

It's just a blip, cases will soon start falling. Restrictions won't be introduced. Have a watch of this:

mobile.twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1451492703208869898

Vaccines are working but effectiveness is waning after 5/6 months. But good news that the booster is getting the effectiveness back up.

Plus we still have huge numbers of people NOT vaccinated plus we were slow compared to many countries on vaccinating younger people.

I'm surprised you need to ask this question. High levels of the virus spread through the mostly unvaccinated children and outwards to other age groups. Vaccinated people still can become infected/unwell needing to isolate leading to staff shortages in healthcare and other key worker roles. If the balance tips over in maintaining these services safely then restrictions could be needed. We could have done more to keep cases lower but our Government chose this path and so we are watching to see how high is too high. Our health and social care services were already under resourced before covid so it doesn't take very much to cause a dangerous situation.

Vaccines aren’t perfect.
Not enough of the population are vaccinated.
Immunity wanes over time.

The uk is a bit of an outlier in going for vaccines with no other measures. We don’t necessarily need full restrictions like the lockdowns.

@Dancerinthedark01

Vaccines were meant to stop the spread.

Vaccines were meant to prevent hospitalisation.

Fine - if they’re not working let’s admit that. Then I understand the need for restrictions again.

But if vaccines work why are we back in this position?

1. Reduce the spread
2. Reduce the risk of hospitalisation.

Both of these are happening.

@SapereAude

Genuine question, what is it about the UK's case data that makes you think they're reducing the spread?

I’m sure I’m not the only person confused at the moment.

Is it that we’ll have to be vaccinated every 6 months from now on then?

And lockdown or bring in restrictions every time our NHS gets overwhelmed?

Because if the latter is the case we’re living with the consequences of Austerity rather than Covid.

There may be large amounts of unvaccinated now but that’s only going to increase surely.

I didn’t sign up to the prospect of being vaccinated every 6 months.

[quote Oldgoat2021]It's just a blip, cases will soon start falling. Restrictions won't be introduced. Have a watch of this:

mobile.twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1451492703208869898[/quote]
Warning:
The Twitter link is to a GB news journalist should anyone not want to give the scum any clicks.
The YT video is from Andrew Lilico, hard-line right wing Brexiteer. "Plucked from obscurity as a bizarre pin up boy for Brexit" as the Telegraph nicely describes him.

[quote Coldpressed]@SapereAude

Genuine question, what is it about the UK's case data that makes you think they're reducing the spread?[/quote]
I don't think anything. I'm an English teacher.
The data confirms it though? See the data thread, the BMJ statistics, the latest hospitalisation figures etc.
(TL:DR- despite high cases there are fewer hospitalisations than with similar number of cases earlier this year, and even fewer deaths) Whatever could have changed since January?

@SapereAude

I asked about spread, not hospitalisation - that was the first point you asserted when you said "Both of these are happening."

It should be difficult to look at the UK's case load over the past 6 months and make that assertion with a straight face.

If you look at the data @coldpressed you can clearly see the age groups where cases are highest. Unvaccinated teens/children. That should give you a clue as to how vaccinations are working to reduce the spread (not eliminate though)

What a naive post

Vaccines were never meant to stop the spread or prevent all hospitalisation. They are there to slow the spread and prevent as much hospitalisation and that’s been clear in all communication

Lots of vaccines only last for a certain time, for example you have flu jabs each year. In addition with new variants you have no idea if the current vaccine would work against them. This is a new vaccine no one knows how long it would last for.

Cases are rising, as are flu cases so we get a booster this year, who knows if we need one every six months after this, we have to wait and see

You are also assuming everyone has been vaccinated, and they are not so that has an impact. The fact they are saying those with family who have covid but they are double jabbed so don’t need to isolate is also playing a part in my opinion

Then you only have to look at posts from MNetters who admit they don’t and have never followed rules to understand why we are where we are

Personally I have, and will continue to follows rules, be careful and think of others. That’s all I can do

And let’s be clear this is happening across the world, just look at Europe, cases rising, Latvia back in lockdown

@mrshoho

That was the case this time last year too.

[quote Coldpressed]@SapereAude

Genuine question, what is it about the UK's case data that makes you think they're reducing the spread?[/quote]
Pre-vaccines last winter cases were routinely much higher than they are now. Deaths were often ten times what they are now. That was with everything closed, mid-lockdown.

Now we have everything open and no restrictions. Very few people (in England) are wearing masks. SD is a thing of the past. And while cases are high, they're still lower than the darkest days of last winter. And deaths and hospitalisations are many, many times lower.

That's what makes me think that vaccines are doing their job.

Vaccines reduce the spread and severity of illness but they only have a time limited effect. Not everyone is vaccinated or are even eligible in the U.K. for full vaccination. We were one of the first countries in Europe to get memento behind our vaccination program but now we are further behind.

Until the whole world has been regularly vaccinate then we need additional measure to prevent the NHS becoming overwhelmed and/or more lockdowns.

[quote Coldpressed]@mrshoho

That was the case this time last year too.[/quote]
no it really wasn't! There was far higher cases in the other age groups pre vaccination rollout.

@TheVampiresWife

Respiratory viruses are generally more prevalent in winter months though so I don't know how much we can really compare this summer to last winter.

@Dancerinthedark01

Vaccines were meant to stop the spread.

Vaccines were meant to prevent hospitalisation.

Fine - if they’re not working let’s admit that. Then I understand the need for restrictions again.

But if vaccines work why are we back in this position?

Newsflash: Johnson is a billy bullshitter.

He oversold what vaccines could do and many people fell for it because they wanted it to be true.

Vaccines are excellent, they're not the answer on their own.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/hospitals

There you go. Scroll down.

Big jump in younger teens and children mind.
Any idea why that might be @Coldpressed?

@Dancerinthedark01 you say you didn’t sign up to be vaccinated every 6 months. No one signed up to covid, just like people don’t sign up to war or earthquakes etc. Shit happens, you can’t just say I’m out.

I'm curious to know how many Mumsnetters who have never followed rules have caught covid?
Reading another post it seems like just over 10 percent of the population have had it so far....

Have they had it more than once? or are they now immune and not now contributing to where we are now?

Or have they not ever caught it, so not contributing to where we are now?

How many caught it and spread it and quite cheerfully are telling everyone?

To what extent have they not followed rules? When things were closed there weren't many rules they could break and they could do very little other than infect close friends or family....At which point perhaps they'd rethink and not be blurting it around the internet...

He oversold what vaccines could do and many people fell for it because they wanted it to be true.

Except we now have a situation where vaccine passports are being considered, exempting those who could just as easily be carrying it from many restrictions. Are vaccine passports being oversold too?

@rrhuth so true, there was a massive and constant ‘sell’ of the vaccine and how it would be the answer.