Why do restrictions have to be introduced?

[Dancerinthedark01]

Vaccines were meant to stop the spread.

Vaccines were meant to prevent hospitalisation.

Fine - if they’re not working let’s admit that. Then I understand the need for restrictions again.

But if vaccines work why are we back in this position?

I'm curious as to how many have never had it. Myself, DH and DD never have had it. I know a few others as well but then I know people who have had it.

[quote RoseRedRoseBlue]@rrhuth so true, there was a massive and constant ‘sell’ of the vaccine and how it would be the answer.[/quote]
Take up is important though so fine if people get it.

Otherwise it’s passports like France or higher hospitalisation/ deaths

@MercyBooth

I thought vaccines didnt stop the spread. They just reduce the chances of being seriously ill. chop change chop change

You know that's not the truth. There are so many studies now that says otherwise.

@DottyHarmer

The thing is that vaccines were the way out for the initial strain. Then Delta came along and although vaccines are still worthwhile, the virus is more transmissible and people still become ill.

BUT what some people forget is what it was like at the beginning of the pandemic: the scenes in Italy, people hospitalised here (eg Boris!) a d the virus running rampant through nursing homes. The vaccine has worked. It may not be 100% , but it has enabled us to carry on.

Btw, a big hiss and boo to the usual suspects on these threads who seem to be implying that a) vaccines are crap and b) the UK got it all wrong (as per usual) by vaccinating too early . Funny how some posters have this crystal ball - except that they never mentioned the too early thing at the start of 2021.

I think people are forgetting just how bad this would be without vaccines.

Then why on earth do people use the reason that vaccines cant do it all usually when arguing for restrictions to be brought back in.

Whilst vaccines are good, they are insufficient on their own - we all know this now. But vaccines reduce the spread, there is evidence for that.

And to have a wealthy economy, you need a healthy population...

@rrhuth exactly! We can't prioritise one above the other, there needs to be an equal balance for them both to succeed. 2020 we very much put health before wealth (rightly so) now that balance needs to be restored and maintained

It's the "swiss cheese model" - if you have just one mitigation, then there will be holes but if you lay them all on top of each other, then most of the holes are filled. Vaccinations + ventilation + self-isolation with proper financial support + everyone doing regular LFTs + masks in crowded indoor settings all work better all layered up together.

@Wellbythebloodyhell

And to have a wealthy economy, you need a healthy population...

@rrhuth exactly! We can't prioritise one above the other, there needs to be an equal balance for them both to succeed. 2020 we very much put health before wealth (rightly so) now that balance needs to be restored and maintained

The government didn't adequately protect either health or wealth, the UK had bad health and economic impacts - AM ngst the worst in the world.

The government are continuing to make the same mistake. Cutting the £20 UC uplift will damage health and the economy.

Letting COVID spread widely is damaging health and the economy.

@MercyBooth

Then why on earth do people use the reason that vaccines cant do it all usually when arguing for restrictions to be brought back in.

Saying that vaccines can't "do it all" is not the same thing as saying they do not reduce infection and transmission.

I don't mind masks coming back (I never stopped), but I will not be happy if 'bubbles' of 250 in a yeargroup are brought back. Totally unfair on the kids who don't have Covid. Just send those kids home who do have Covid surely. Unless workplaces are having bubbles of 250 people that they send home everytime a couple of of people test positive - no, I don't think so, but apparently it is OK to treat children like second-class citizens. And yes, some of them are double vaccinated now too, double unfairness.

Bubbles in school have been scientifically disproved and it is a very bad look on schools to be practising bad disproved science.

Winter was always going to be a problem and no government should have promised that herd immunity would be enough. The idea of this was debunked early on but this government continued to push it as an agenda for a long time. A coronavirus is not like an illness you get once and have immunity from - if it was, we would only get one cold a year. So we need to get boosters. The biggest issue is that we already had hospitals struggling to cope - and now A&Es full of people who cant see their GPs. We have an overloaded, overwhelmed staff and continuing shortage of nurses so however much money this government boasts about giving (which will still not offset what the NHS has lost in real terms) they still need to find actual people for the jobs. And Brexit is not making us super attractive as a place to come and live for the foreign nationals whom the NHS relies on. There will be unnecessary deaths if the NHS is not protected.

@rrhuth

Who do you think funds the NHS? It’s private sector businesses employing people who then pay taxes.

I think what a lot of people in the NHS demanding restrictions need to realise is that we only have an NHS because of businesses employing people- many of which will no longer be here if we continue with the eternal restrictions like they seem to want.

@MercyBooth

And thats why we can never have a discussion about the NHS. Because any deviation from sanctification and you get told you hate doctors.

TBH, you don't try to 'have a discussion' about the NHS. Your posts are always baited and angry tirades against the NHS that guarantee a bunfight about the NHS - and that is what you set out to do, for whatever reason. I'm not sure why, as going by your posting history, you depend heavily on the NHS and its staff.

[quote GreenLakes]@rrhuth

Who do you think funds the NHS? It’s private sector businesses employing people who then pay taxes.

I think what a lot of people in the NHS demanding restrictions need to realise is that we only have an NHS because of businesses employing people- many of which will no longer be here if we continue with the eternal restrictions like they seem to want.[/quote]
do you think I don't understand the basic composition of the UK economy?

What's your point?

Yes private businesses and public sector organisations employ people who pay tax, plus many other taxation streams as there is no single ringfenced NHS tax.

People in the NHS (I am not one of them) understand the economy well enough - there is high political engagement and general education level so I don't feel this Yr7 citizenship lesson is contributing much.

[quote GreenLakes]@rrhuth

Who do you think funds the NHS? It’s private sector businesses employing people who then pay taxes.

I think what a lot of people in the NHS demanding restrictions need to realise is that we only have an NHS because of businesses employing people- many of which will no longer be here if we continue with the eternal restrictions like they seem to want.[/quote]
And how are those businesses able to employ healthy people?

By having an NHS that treats the population.

It’s not a one sided arrangement.