Why do restrictions have to be introduced?

[Dancerinthedark01]

Vaccines were meant to stop the spread.

Vaccines were meant to prevent hospitalisation.

Fine - if they’re not working let’s admit that. Then I understand the need for restrictions again.

But if vaccines work why are we back in this position?

[quote Coldpressed]@SapereAude

I asked about spread, not hospitalisation - that was the first point you asserted when you said "Both of these are happening."

It should be difficult to look at the UK's case load over the past 6 months and make that assertion with a straight face.[/quote]
Not really.

In samples from the UK you can see that infection and transmission is higher in unvaccinated versus vaccinated groups.

These samples are relatively representative of the general population and so it can be extrapolated.

The situation would be many magnitudes worse if no one had been vaccinated.

Have they introduced them, I must have missed it, when do they start

@LovingBob

Have they introduced them, I must have missed it, when do they start

Quite. Anybody would think people were posting just to wind everyone up.

Says something when US news agencies are raising eyebrows at our unique approach..

www.nbcnews.com/news/world/new-variant-no-masks-driving-uks-latest-covid-surge-rcna3392

@Dancerinthedark01

I’m sure I’m not the only person confused at the moment.

Is it that we’ll have to be vaccinated every 6 months from now on then?

And lockdown or bring in restrictions every time our NHS gets overwhelmed?

Because if the latter is the case we’re living with the consequences of Austerity rather than Covid.

There may be large amounts of unvaccinated now but that’s only going to increase surely.

I didn’t sign up to the prospect of being vaccinated every 6 months.

I hadn’t realised that there is the option to sign up to a covid free world. Where do i sign?

@mrshoho

It’s hardly a unique approach. Norway, Finland, Denmark and Sweden have all removed the vast majority of restrictions along with most US states.

The only restrictions currently in place in most of Europe are masks and vaccine passports. Both of which are also in place in Scotland and Wales- both of which have had significantly higher case rates, deaths and hospitalisations than England.

Masks are not magic as one people seem to think.

[quote GreenLakes]@mrshoho

It’s hardly a unique approach. Norway, Finland, Denmark and Sweden have all removed the vast majority of restrictions along with most US states.

The only restrictions currently in place in most of Europe are masks and vaccine passports. Both of which are also in place in Scotland and Wales- both of which have had significantly higher case rates, deaths and hospitalisations than England.

Masks are not magic as one people seem to think.[/quote]
Agreed.

The majority of people wearing masks are doing it for their themselves, not to protect some random in the supermarket 'just in case' they have Covid and might pass it on. I would say to those mask wearers to cover their eyes with goggles or glasses while their at it, you don't just breathe virus particles in.

The stupid thing is, we were told around this time last year that vaccines would be the way out and back to freedom and some normality. Now we’re being told exactly the same thing and are expected to believe that?
I’ve no doubt the vaccines work for those that need them and good news hospitalisations and deaths have not significantly increased despite the sustained higher case levels. But this leads me even more to the conclusion that as long as the vulnerable are protected by vaccines then the rest of the population should be able to carry on as normal and cases rise and fall during the winter season as expected. We do not all need never ending vaccinations or any further or new restrictions.

Trouble is if we continue wearing masks over winter what happens to immunity for viruses like flu for adults and children

@Fallagain

"I hadn’t realised that there is the option to sign up to a covid free world. Where do i sign?"

I think you misunderstood the point OP was making. A Covid free world or "zero Covid" is simply never going to happen, for example the virus that caused the 1957 and 1968 flu pandemics are still doing the rounds today. Even the deluded "zero Covid" protagonists are now coming round to accept this.

The point the OP was making was that she didn't sign up to lockdowns and restrictions being imposed ever year from now on, or for having a booster jab every 6 months.

I also believe the point OP was making was that she would rather take her chances with Covid every year than face lockdowns or restrictions every year. Zero Covid is not an option but there is an option on how Governments choose to react (or not) on how to deal with it.

@Assssssssssss

Trouble is if we continue wearing masks over winter what happens to immunity for viruses like flu for adults and children

Well your natural resistance levels will drop off meaning your reaction becomes much worse to common contagious viruses like RSV, Norovirus, common cold and the flu.

Witness the recent "severe cold" recently doing the rounds and why many people are shit scared about flu this winter.

Sadly children who are at a very low risk from Covid itself are now at a real and increased risk from RSV, flu and norovirus as a result of the measures taken to combat Covid.

5 million are as yet unvaccinated.

The majority of hospitalisations are unvaccinated or extremely clinically vulnerable people. Vaccines are extremely effective at limiting symptoms and preventing hospitalisation for most people.

I for one would be happy and grateful to receive 6 monthly boosters.

The original posts perfectly highlights why using the word ‘vaccine’ causes confusion. People associate vaccine with ‘cure’. Some people are under the impression that being vaccinated against C19 means preventing infection.. it doesn’t. Yes, it protects the vaccinated against severe illness, which in turn eases the pressure in our NHS, but it does not prevent transmission.
People also forget that there are people who for medical reasons are unable to be vaccinated, and each person with whom they come into contact, vaccinated or not, has the potential to pass on the disease. I really wish people would stop looking at this ‘ vaccination’ as they end of Covid, because it’s really isn't.

@Assssssssssss

Trouble is if we continue wearing masks over winter what happens to immunity for viruses like flu for adults and children

The flu virus comes from different strains each year anyway.

We spent the whole of last year being told children and young people don't catch covid, they don't spread it, don't get ill, no transmission in schools etc. Now suddenly it's them that are the problem. Agree with the pp in saying it should be a case of vaccinate the vulnerable and let everyone else get on with it. This disease is still mild for the vast majority of people!

The flu virus comes from different strains each year anyway.

It does and it doesn't. It's the same 'pool' of variants as it were, and scientists predict which one will be dominant in any given year in order to manufacture the right vaccine. They don't always get it right, but they're pretty good at doing so. Also it's possible for the same variant to be dominant two years in a row.

With there being virtually no flu last year I do wonder how they were able to predict which variant would be dominant this year. I wonder if that's why flu is such a worry this year - the modelling for vaccines is messed up thanks to the lack of flu last year?

I'm not a virologist so fully accept that I may be talking out of my arse however!

[quote 1dayatatime]@Fallagain

"I hadn’t realised that there is the option to sign up to a covid free world. Where do i sign?"

I think you misunderstood the point OP was making. A Covid free world or "zero Covid" is simply never going to happen, for example the virus that caused the 1957 and 1968 flu pandemics are still doing the rounds today. Even the deluded "zero Covid" protagonists are now coming round to accept this.

The point the OP was making was that she didn't sign up to lockdowns and restrictions being imposed ever year from now on, or for having a booster jab every 6 months.

I also believe the point OP was making was that she would rather take her chances with Covid every year than face lockdowns or restrictions every year. Zero Covid is not an option but there is an option on how Governments choose to react (or not) on how to deal with it.[/quote]
Yeah, but not doing anything isn’t one of those options.

Eradication or zero covid were options but we’ve probably missed the boat on those. Not because it wasn’t possible, but because of lack of willpower to do what was necessary.
It’s now endemic, but that doesn’t mean just let it spread and do nothing for some diseases and unfortunately covid looks like it might be one where you can’t just let it run riot. We might have been able to if delta hadn’t turned up and reduced the vaccine efficacy slightly. It reduces transmission with delta, but it was better at doing that with alpha.

The vaccines do work much better than we’d hoped, but otherwise we’ve kind of fucked the response globally. Nobody signed up to it, but until we’ve got better treatments and maybe a more effective vaccine, vaccines + some mitigation’s might be the only way forwards. Deciding not to get vaccinated every 6 months is just cutting your nose off to spite your face. It just means tougher mitigations.

The vaccines we’re developed to combat the first CV but it mutated to Delta which is stronger and more contagious. Where have you been???

*were

@TheVampiresWife

The flu virus comes from different strains each year anyway.

It does and it doesn't. It's the same 'pool' of variants as it were, and scientists predict which one will be dominant in any given year in order to manufacture the right vaccine. They don't always get it right, but they're pretty good at doing so. Also it's possible for the same variant to be dominant two years in a row.

With there being virtually no flu last year I do wonder how they were able to predict which variant would be dominant this year. I wonder if that's why flu is such a worry this year - the modelling for vaccines is messed up thanks to the lack of flu last year?

I'm not a virologist so fully accept that I may be talking out of my arse however!

I have no idea either tbh! I know they just go on about this year's flu being the Wotsit strain etc I do know for the first time ever I'll have the jab!

@FlyLight

We spent the whole of last year being told children and young people don't catch covid, they don't spread it, don't get ill, no transmission in schools etc. Now suddenly it's them that are the problem. Agree with the pp in saying it should be a case of vaccinate the vulnerable and let everyone else get on with it. This disease is still mild for the vast majority of people!

This is the problem with having a pm who lies constantly.

What you were told about children was a lie.

You can't just vaccinate the vulnerable and ignore the rest - it doesn't work. We are seeing serious problems now and we are still asking people to isolate.

You can't wish away the reality of covid.

@FlyLight

We spent the whole of last year being told children and young people don't catch covid, they don't spread it, don't get ill, no transmission in schools etc. Now suddenly it's them that are the problem. Agree with the pp in saying it should be a case of vaccinate the vulnerable and let everyone else get on with it. This disease is still mild for the vast majority of people!

Agree with this too.

I have always followed every restriction going, didn't see family etc. I don't wear a mask anymore and I don't particularly want to if the restrictions come in again. I'm a teacher of a class of 30 very small children and with their best intentions, they don't understand hand washing for 20 seconds and perfect hygiene. If I can be exposed to that many children day in and day out without a mask then I have no intention of wearing one in the future.

@Benjispruce4

The vaccines we’re developed to combat the first CV but it mutated to Delta which is stronger and more contagious. Where have you been???

Just one dose of vaccine provides up to 96% protection against serious illness/hospitalisation re Delta.

Compare the hospitalisation/deaths data now with the same pre-vaccines when we had similar infection rates.

The vaccines are incredibly successful.

@FlyLight

We spent the whole of last year being told children and young people don't catch covid, they don't spread it, don't get ill, no transmission in schools etc. Now suddenly it's them that are the problem. Agree with the pp in saying it should be a case of vaccinate the vulnerable and let everyone else get on with it. This disease is still mild for the vast majority of people!

That was a lie and known to be a lie at the time. Plenty of scientists and people on here pointing that out at the time if people were prepared to listen.

There may have been some question about it at the start but really by last summer there was evidence to the contrary and by autumn it wasn’t in much doubt if you looked at evidence across the globe. The only reason they are changing tack now is because having been taken in by covid skeptics they are in trouble and it can’t really be denied.

I didn’t sign up to the prospect of being vaccinated every 6 months
I didn’t sign up for the Covid pandemic at all. Tough though innit! If we need twice yearly vaccinations to keep it under control and be able to live normally then I guess we have to accept that.