For those who want restrictions to return...

[Warhertisuff]

When would think it reasonable for those restrictions to be eased again?

Or do you believe restrictions should be a permanent, or at least cyclical, part of life now?

@OliveTree75

I won't be wearing a mask again. I work in a primary school where we have never worn them (which I agree with). If I can breathe in the air of 30 8yr olds all day then I am not wearing a mask to nip in the shop for bread. Call me selfish but not doing it.

I would call it foolish, as you're only making it worse for your whole community, which presumably includes people you care about.

But there is no law written that can prevent foolishness!

@OliveTree75

I won't be wearing a mask again. I work in a primary school where we have never worn them (which I agree with). If I can breathe in the air of 30 8yr olds all day then I am not wearing a mask to nip in the shop for bread. Call me selfish but not doing it.

Can I ask why not?

This is quite a good article on why Randomised Controlled Trials aren't really appropriate re mask wearing, but explaining that there are other sorts of evidence supporting it

www.politifact.com/article/2021/mar/12/why-randomized-controlled-trials-mask-wearing-and-/

There seems to be quite a strong scientific consensus in support (and more substantial masks seem to work better, unsurprisingly)

SD means no household mixing, huge swathes of hospitality and other sectors being unable to open

That really depends how you apply it, 'SD' ranges infinitely in the application.

It certainly doesn't automatically mean no household mixing.

@OliveTree75

I won't be wearing a mask again. I work in a primary school where we have never worn them (which I agree with). If I can breathe in the air of 30 8yr olds all day then I am not wearing a mask to nip in the shop for bread. Call me selfish but not doing it.

I understand! School feels like a different world!

[quote Scottishskifun]@herecomesthsun most of the studies into masks and delta show another factor be it ventilation, social distancing and also state worn correctly.... Vast majority of people do not do this.

There is no such thing as a reusable FFP2 mask. You can get positive pressure systems which obviously is reusable but it's a helmet with a airflow pipe and filtration panel.
I suggest scrolling through 3M website for the types of masks which are available who are a global leader in PPE and masks you won't find a reusable FFP2 mask![/quote]
I have linked to an article about reusable masks which are graded as FFP2?

The advice in the East is to follow the "3Cs" - avoid crowds, close contact and closed spaces.

It is possible to do that to some extent, and if I can't - if I go into a shop for 10 minutes - I wear the best reusable mask I've found.

I don't have to be mandated to do that and there are a lot of people like me.

I also support local business where I can.

@rrhuth

SD means no household mixing, huge swathes of hospitality and other sectors being unable to open

That really depends how you apply it, 'SD' ranges infinitely in the application.

It certainly doesn't automatically mean no household mixing.

It may not automatically mean no household mixing, but it does automatically mean restrictions on mixing.

And it absolutely means the death knell for hospitality, and job losses.

More poverty is not the answer to fixing Covid.

I don't want restrictions but something needs to done! I'm still wearing my mask when I go out and I don't care what others think. Bring back masks in all indoor settings for a start, I'd rather that than another bloody lockdown.

My biggest issue is with the schools no longer having to send kids home if they are a contact of a positive case. Covid has wiped out my DS's school over the past two weeks. It's being allowed to rip through schools. My DS is now positive so our half term plans are ruined. I feel awful sending my DD into school knowing she could be carrying the virus and spreading it around but until she tests positive I can't keep her at home.

I think they need to bring that rule back in until a high enough percentage of kids have been vaccinated. Then only relax the rules for vaccinated kids.

Mass gatherings need to be stopped again too sadly.

I hate it all but how is the current approach safe?

I wish well to the hospitality industry but I would rather we didn't have thousands of people dying around us if we can avoid it.

People will do well who manage to offer covid safe experiences, like the booked-out drive in panto we are going to.

It is, after all, based on business decisions how to provide customers with what they want. Some people no doubt will be keen to keep going to pubs and nightclubs just as long as they're available
e.

... Well instead of learning to live with a disease that can kill, that can make people very ill, how about we learn to live with fewer pubs and nightclubs...

How lovey for all those families who work in the hospitality industry.

@herecomesthsun

This is quite a good article on why Randomised Controlled Trials aren't really appropriate re mask wearing, but explaining that there are other sorts of evidence supporting it

www.politifact.com/article/2021/mar/12/why-randomized-controlled-trials-mask-wearing-and-/

There seems to be quite a strong scientific consensus in support (and more substantial masks seem to work better, unsurprisingly)

They are appropriate, it’s the only way we can know if an intervention works, a lot of observational studies are garbage.

Otherwise, you are advocating mask wearing on shaky evidence. That’s not ok

Masks are supposed to be compulsory on London transport, but plenty of people don’t bother. And presumably the many who wear them, but below their noses or on their chins, are not exempt.

This country has always been pathetically soft over face masks - I’d like to see a lot more signs like the one in a local pharmacy - ‘No mask, no entry.’

And those who are genuinely exempt, not those who just don’t like wearing them (who the hell ever does?) should IMO have to wear an officially issued lanyard.

1. Compulsory mask wearing in all public indoor spaces for as long as it takes, supported by an effective public information campaign - masks are cheap and mitigate spread and (excepting a few people with genuine reasons) aren’t much of an ask of anyone during a pandemic. I’d want them to become a cultural norm on public transport during winter forever tbh, why would you want to breath in someone else’s flu germs? Most people don’t wear them for the same ridiculous reasons people used to object to seatbelts or not being allowed to smoke inside (personal liberty blah blah)

1. WFH if you can over the winter

1. Firebreak for at least a couple of weeks in November to help the NHS and give us all a chance of perhaps having a Christmas this year.

1. Vaccinations and boosters - we got off to a good start on vaccines, but the government have been really lazy and relied almost entirely on the backdrop of the pandemic to get people in to be vaccinated. Now most people who were going to a vaccine anyway have done so and rates are plummeting because we haven’t yet reached the vaccine hesitant. We should be aiming to vaccinate 95% of the population by spring next year and have weekly targets and it should be backed by a really great public health and education campaign - on tv, reaching out to workplaces, schools, communities. The government needs to put money behind it instead of coming up with a stupid slogan when they got together at the pub the night before.

1. MPs need to visibly model and champion behaviours - why would you do what Boris says when he clearly doesn’t he believe what he says?

1. Vaccine passports or proof of test to access venues at least until next Spring.

We’re currently in a repeat of last year. We’re going to end up in more extreme measure over Christmas/January/February because the government refuses to take any preventative action now.

I wish well to the hospitality industry

It doesn't sound like you do, tbh.

We had thousands of people dying when hospitality was closed. Granted, there were no vaccines then. But in the midst of a pandemic, schools being open and millions of unvaccinated children mixing is going to have a far bigger impact than vaccinated adults having a pint or watching a play.

I can't in all conscience advocate millions of people losing their livelihoods. Well wishes aren't doing to feed families or pay rents.

@TheVampiresWife

No one needs to inform me about the hospitality sector, I have a parent and a partner in the sector both deeply affected since March 2020.

But the UK has been worst affected both in terms of deaths and economy. Our approach is failing on both fronts.

I live in a tourist hotspot. Sadly local businesses are shutting as people don't want to visit plague island.

This isn't working.

This country has always been pathetically soft over face masks - I’d like to see a lot more signs like the one in a local pharmacy - ‘No mask, no entry.’
And those who are genuinely exempt, not those who just don’t like wearing them (who the hell ever does?) should IMO have to wear an officially issued lanyard

How utterly depressing that we're back to this again.

'No mask, no entry' indeed.

I agree with the OP we should let it run its course. The same people comment against this that you can quickly get reinfected but they need to read the evidence - it shows this is rarely the case.

Everyone will get covid. Boosters will reduce symptoms and treatments will improve. We should focus on equipping the NHS to cope with what comes its way otherwise it will fall over every year for one reason or another.

I do support WFH if sick and masks on busy piblic transport as general hygiene measures though, not specifically for covid.

“masks are cheap and mitigate spread and (excepting a few people with genuine reasons) aren’t much of an ask of anyone during a pandemic”

Stop it. It is a big ask. That isn’t to say it isn’t worth it, but stop saying it’s not much to ask. It has a big impact on activities for many people. Just because you don’t find it that hard doesn't mean that your experience is universal. Own that it is hard for many, but you think the hardship is worth it.

@UsedUpUsername It certainly is okay for the WHO to give positive advice regarding the wearing of masks based on meta-analyses of the data we do have

Masks and WFH are still compulsory in Scotland and Wales and have been throughout. Cases there are not lower than in England.

Why is this if masks and wfh have a significant impact?

I can't in all conscience advocate millions of people losing their livelihoods. This is hyperbolic in the extreme, and I speak as someone's whose partner did lose most of their livelihood.

There is a long way between fully open with no restrictions and fully shut.

[quote rrhuth]@TheVampiresWife

No one needs to inform me about the hospitality sector, I have a parent and a partner in the sector both deeply affected since March 2020.

But the UK has been worst affected both in terms of deaths and economy. Our approach is failing on both fronts.

I live in a tourist hotspot. Sadly local businesses are shutting as people don't want to visit plague island.

This isn't working.[/quote]
I live in a tourist hotspot too and it's packed, all the time. I was on Scotland last week and it was the same.

What are you suggesting - that we close hospitality again? How on earth is plunging more people into poverty the answer to a disease which hits those in poverty hardest?

Hospitality was closed last winter and infections were still sky high. And when it fully reopened in July, there was no dramatic increase in cases. I'm honestly not sure what it would achieve.

@RichTeaRichTea

“masks are cheap and mitigate spread and (excepting a few people with genuine reasons) aren’t much of an ask of anyone during a pandemic”

Stop it. It is a big ask. That isn’t to say it isn’t worth it, but stop saying it’s not much to ask. It has a big impact on activities for many people. Just because you don’t find it that hard doesn't mean that your experience is universal. Own that it is hard for many, but you think the hardship is worth it.

It is a worthwhile ask (is that better?)

It is less of a hard ask than for example, what ICU nurses are doing every day (on top of wearing masks).

Or the work done by all the volunteers at vaccine stations (also wearing masks and unpaid)

@rrhuth

I can't in all conscience advocate millions of people losing their livelihoods. This is hyperbolic in the extreme, and I speak as someone's whose partner did lose most of their livelihood.

There is a long way between fully open with no restrictions and fully shut.

Most of the hospitality sector (and other cultural venues such as theatres and music venues) cannot open with SD in place. And if hospitality is forced to close, of course people will lose their livelihoods - there's no furlough, and UC takes weeks to come through even if you qualify for it.

I volunteer at a food bank and I've seen the fallout first hand. It's not hyperbolic at all.

@Sunshinegirl82

Masks and WFH are still compulsory in Scotland and Wales and have been throughout. Cases there are not lower than in England.

Why is this if masks and wfh have a significant impact?

This