will covid ever go away

[essexgirl58]

As of today the covid figures have topped 50,000.

I blame the Government for relaxing the wearing of masks. Even on public transport where the wearing of masks is compulsory, many people are not adhering to this and nobody takes any notice.

Venues have been opened such as cinemas and gyms and people do not have to wear a mask.

Even places of worship are relaxed and they say oh you do not have to wear a mask. There is also no limit on the numbers at funerals.

Roll on the winter

To be fair I think we have a little gotten rid of that. When DH got it at Christmas (from the supermarket the rest of us were negative) it felt that way.

When DS got it it was a bit well it is everywhere it is hard to avoid

@Wellbythebloodyhell

We need to get away from the concept that if you catch covid you've done something wron or not followed rules or someone else has not followed rules or done something wrong that's made you ill. Its a virus doing what a virus does , you can take measures to try and reduce the possibility of catching or transmitting a virus but you can not stop it in its entirety unless you wear a hazmat suit 24/7 the sooner people realise that the better. You can be as careful as you like but it can still "get you ".

Exactly this!

So many people catch it in hospital. It spreads like wildfire in care homes. No rules being broken in either of those cases.

I have to ask people if they've recently had covid in my job and the amount of "no I've been very good and very careful" responses I hear astounds me

However it doesn't work like that in practice does it

Well yes it does.

I recommend you follow Trisha Greenhalgh on twitter as she posts the evidence fairly often in vey accessibje form

And a simple example is that in NI and Scotland - where masks are silk requied, the number of infected people is 1:130 and 1:90, and in England and Wales where it's not the rates are 1:50 and 1:45 (source BBC)

Number of cases isn't the key indicator, in a largely vaccinated population, it's numbers admitted - though of course that is related to the number of cases - it's a sharply lower proportion, but still linked

Even before the flu season gets underway, hospitals are worryingly full. If covid admissions continue to rise, then there will be very little capacity for anything else

@Wellbythebloodyhell

I have to ask people if they've recently had covid in my job and the amount of "no I've been very good and very careful" responses I hear astounds me

My aunt caught Covid, and was very confused as to how, as she "always wore gloves to the supermarket".

And a simple example is that in NI and Scotland - where masks are silk requied, the number of infected people is 1:130 and 1:90, and in England and Wales where it's not the rates are 1:50 and 1:45 (source BBC)

Clearly not that simple an example, given that masks are in fact mandatory in most indoor settlings in Wales.

I continue to be amazed at the great faith MNers put in little scraps of cloth.

An interesting read:

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jep.13415

I visited Wales - ate in a restaurant. No-one wore masks when moving around, none of the staff were in masks. Saying they are mandatory in Wales and Scotland is a joke so no you can not deduce masks dont work from that. As for wearing them at work - couple of hairdressers got covid and didnt infect any of their customers, they were wearing masks.

Masks worn properly would have some impact and is the only mitigation the government is proposing. People actually doing lateral flow tests and isolating would have more impact. Vaccine passports would have more impact.

As it is the government wants us all infected as fast as possible and is doing everything it can to ensure that.

@UnmentionedElephantDildo

However it doesn't work like that in practice does it

Well yes it does.

I recommend you follow Trisha Greenhalgh on twitter as she posts the evidence fairly often in vey accessibje form

And a simple example is that in NI and Scotland - where masks are silk requied, the number of infected people is 1:130 and 1:90, and in England and Wales where it's not the rates are 1:50 and 1:45 (source BBC)

Number of cases isn't the key indicator, in a largely vaccinated population, it's numbers admitted - though of course that is related to the number of cases - it's a sharply lower proportion, but still linked

Even before the flu season gets underway, hospitals are worryingly full. If covid admissions continue to rise, then there will be very little capacity for anything else

Scotland was very high though recently wasn’t it?

The sharp increase and decrease is more likely to be immunity patterns than masks - which would just slow it down and make it flatter

Masks (cloth masks/ disposables) are good for:

• psychologically nudging/reminding you to undertake other infection control measures such as distancing and sanitising
• making you “feel” protected so you’ll go about your business in the economy
• making other people feel protected so they’ll go about their business

They are not so good for actually stopping covid transmission, if they are not worn properly. Which they aren’t in 80% of cases.

@VaguelyInteresting
Ferguson actually said that recently about masks. He didn’t mention them preventing transmission at all but just said that they act as a visual reminder that covid is still present and would be useful for that reason. He didn’t actually say that they don’t work but I thought it was interesting that that was the justification he gave for their reintroduction.

I think for some they are so little inconvenience that they think it’s worth mandating them just to be on the safe side. I don’t have a problem with wearing a mask to pop into a shop or walk to my table at a restaurant except that I think it’s pointless in that situation. I do mind when I’m taking my toddler to an activity because it sucks the joy out of it and makes it less beneficial for him because he can’t understand me.

It won't go away.

But restrictions and testing will once everybody realises this.

@VaguelyInteresting

Masks (cloth masks/ disposables) are good for:

• psychologically nudging/reminding you to undertake other infection control measures such as distancing and sanitising
• making you “feel” protected so you’ll go about your business in the economy
• making other people feel protected so they’ll go about their business

They are not so good for actually stopping covid transmission, if they are not worn properly. Which they aren’t in 80% of cases.

I agree, though there are some situations;, like being crammed on a bus or tube train, where it makes sense to me.

A fair bit of mask wearing is pure Covid theatre.... such as at work, where we can sit together in an office without masks (prolonged contact), but need to wear a mask to walk around (fleeting contacts at most!). People realise it bollocks... and resent it accordingly.

@HesterShaw1

That was the whole point of "flatten the curve" - it's the same area under the curve!

This was the phrase on everyone's lips in March 2020 wasn't it? Then it became more a case of "Aaaargh we must eliminate all infection ever".

except that no one said that, of course

@tedsletterofthelaw

It won't go away.

But restrictions and testing will once everybody realises this.

We have very few restrictions, actually.

And though covid won't "go away", if people get jabs/ boosters, wear masks in crowds indoors, do LFTs and try to avoid infecting other people when positive, there will be less spread at least over the depths of this particular winter.

Nice if people could realise this.

People catching covid in hospital mostly get it from other patients. I wouldnt asume no rules are broken, it's actually pretty difficult to keep a mask on a patient with dementi. There are also plenty of patients in hospital with covid who are there because they were anti-vax and they are also frequently anti-mask. Some realise the error of their ways, some are still in denial when put on a ventilator.

@Wellbythebloodyhell

We need to get away from the concept that if you catch covid you've done something wron or not followed rules or someone else has not followed rules or done something wrong that's made you ill. Its a virus doing what a virus does , you can take measures to try and reduce the possibility of catching or transmitting a virus but you can not stop it in its entirety unless you wear a hazmat suit 24/7 the sooner people realise that the better. You can be as careful as you like but it can still "get you ".

The thing is that smoking puts you at risk of lung cancer, but not all those who get lung-cancer are smokers. Although most with lung cancer will have been exposed to sigar smokes quit a bit, whether that is from smoking or people around them smoking. The stigma around it hits all who get it.

The same is true for COVID. With vaccine available, the chances of you contracted COVID, because you refused to get it are much higher than getting COVID while vaccinated.

It sucks but these type of decisions have broader implications than just your own health and the stigma people face. Those who now get COVID will likely be given the stink-eye, even if they did get the vaccine, because some people were too arrogant/selfish/gullible to get their shots.

I’m not sure how much protection the vaccines give from catching it. I have it and lots of people I know have it or have recently had it and all had been double jabbed. It’s certainly not as high as they claim. All those infected have one thing in common, School aged children. I think it will be with us for some time but they seem to be making headway on effective treatments so hopefully that will help.

@Suchi1

I’m not sure how much protection the vaccines give from catching it. I have it and lots of people I know have it or have recently had it and all had been double jabbed. It’s certainly not as high as they claim. All those infected have one thing in common, School aged children. I think it will be with us for some time but they seem to be making headway on effective treatments so hopefully that will help.

I've had it despite being double jabbed and don't have school aged children.