Are we locking down again?

[Dancerinthedark01]

And if so will they do more of the furlough and shutting things down?

Schools?

Please No!

I’m reading that this might be happening.

@Bizawit what a stupid analogy

It really isn't

@TheKeatingFive

There are a LOT of rules around car driving to keep deaths as low as possible.

And there could be a lot more (more frequent testing, higher penalties, changes to speed limits, more stringent requirements from manufacturers.)

We absolutely aren't doing everything we could do to keep RTA deaths as low as possible.

We kind of are. 20-mile speed limits are being enforced on many roads. In Scotland drinking with any alcohol is basically illegal. Safety standards for car manufacturers are constantly increasing. Of course there is always more to do. But lots is happening.

We kind of are.

No we aren't.

We could be implementing yearly testing for people. Massively increasing penalties for speeding/dangerous driving and a one strike and your license is gone policy. Implementing much stricter medical suitability criteria for older driving. Banning younger drivers from motorway driving until they've 5/6 years experience.

I could go on and on.

@TheKeatingFive we don't have enough instructors to do annual testing. Yes we could increase penalties I agree.
Increase medical suitability criteria? What do you think needs to change? The list of illnesses is pretty wide.
Totally disagree with banning young drivers from motorways. Most accidents are on ordinary roads, not motorways. Motorways are easier to drive on than ordinary roads. And motorway lessons are now mandatory.

[quote RoseStar]@Bizawit what a stupid analogy[/quote]
What a pointless retort 🤷🏼‍♀️

[quote julieca]@TheKeatingFive we don't have enough instructors to do annual testing. Yes we could increase penalties I agree.
Increase medical suitability criteria? What do you think needs to change? The list of illnesses is pretty wide.
Totally disagree with banning young drivers from motorways. Most accidents are on ordinary roads, not motorways. Motorways are easier to drive on than ordinary roads. And motorway lessons are now mandatory.[/quote]
We could ban people over 75 from driving. We could ban young men under 25 from driving.

no chance. Even if they did, people wouldn't stand for it.

@HesterShaw1 sure we could ban all private cars.
And we could be in lockdown forever.
In real life it is about a balance.
So about 1,700 to 1800 people die every year in car accidents. That is substantially lower than covid deaths. It is about how many people are dying in 2-3 weeks at the moment.

Most accidents are on ordinary roads, not motorways

But the ones on motorways cause more fatalities.

The point is there are many, many more measures we could take and don't.

So about 1,700 to 1800 people die every year in car accidents. That is substantially lower than covid deaths. It is about how many people are dying in 2-3 weeks at the moment.

The makeup of those deaths is different, they will involve lots more young people with many quality life years ahead.

It's not about directly comparing numbers, but demonstrating that we absolutely do not do 'everything we can' to prevent RTA deaths. The same is true of cancer, heart disease, stroke, flu, sepsis deaths. Like it or not a degree of cost / benefit is applied and the same will ultimately be true of covid.

@TheKeatingFive

So about 1,700 to 1800 people die every year in car accidents. That is substantially lower than covid deaths. It is about how many people are dying in 2-3 weeks at the moment.

The makeup of those deaths is different, they will involve lots more young people with many quality life years ahead.

It's not about directly comparing numbers, but demonstrating that we absolutely do not do 'everything we can' to prevent RTA deaths. The same is true of cancer, heart disease, stroke, flu, sepsis deaths. Like it or not a degree of cost / benefit is applied and the same will ultimately be true of covid.

Exactly.

The cost/ benefit calculation with covid also includes the acute pressure on services and cost to society of them being overwhelmed; also at the moment the effect of covid combining with flu.

So your comments are a bit simplistic.

The cost/ benefit calculation with covid also includes the acute pressure on services and cost to society of them being overwhelmed; also at the moment the effect of covid combining with flu.

They also need to involve the impact restrictions have on longer term strategies for flu management (reduced immunity/difficulties predicting strains for next years strains, something that's biting us in the arse as a result of last years lockdown)

So no, not simple at all. Good job I didn't say it was.

@TheKeatingFive the reason more young people die on the road is drink driving - already illegal, and "joyriding" also illegal.

the reason more young people die on the road is drink driving - already illegal, and "joyriding" also illegal.

But it's not preventing deaths. Banning them til they're 25 would cut down a lot of these.

So you want to ban people who are already breaking the law?

A lot of people "joyriding" do not have licenses to drive.

So you want to ban people who are already breaking the law?

Depends on whether your goal is to 'do everything possible' to prevent deaths, doesn't it?

Another approach could be much harsher penalties for these things. Lifelong bans/long jail sentences. There are a range of options that we don't use.

@TheKeatingFive

The cost/ benefit calculation with covid also includes the acute pressure on services and cost to society of them being overwhelmed; also at the moment the effect of covid combining with flu.

They also need to involve the impact restrictions have on longer term strategies for flu management (reduced immunity/difficulties predicting strains for next years strains, something that's biting us in the arse as a result of last years lockdown)

So no, not simple at all. Good job I didn't say it was.

Exactly this. Half of this years problem is because of restrictions last year (I.e pressure from flu infections) so I wish people would stop banging on about lockdown to prevent pressure on the NHS.

Exactly this. Half of this years problem is because of restrictions last year (I.e pressure from flu infections) so I wish people would stop banging on about lockdown to prevent pressure on the NHS

It would have been worse if we didn’t lockdown. The problem is we left lockdown a week too late or did you miss that story?

It would have been worse if we didn’t lockdown.

Lockdown did help mitigate covid pressures last year, yes. The problem is that it also fucked flu strategy for this year. The many, many costs of lockdown also include health costs.

Now I don't disagree that was needed last year from an nhs pov. The problem is that in the medium term relying on it causes more and more problems.

I don't disagree that (lockdown) was needed last year from an nhs pov

Probably, yes - however as many said at the time there's an obvious temptation, having done it once, to use it as the go-to in order to "protect" a sacred cow that's already way past it's date with the knacker's yard

Plus, of course, if you drive everyone demented enough they'll be much less likely to object if it's privatised, with spin about "it's either this or lockdowns for ever"

@Iggly

Exactly this. Half of this years problem is because of restrictions last year (I.e pressure from flu infections) so I wish people would stop banging on about lockdown to prevent pressure on the NHS

It would have been worse if we didn’t lockdown. The problem is we left lockdown a week too late or did you miss that story?

No I didn't miss that "story". Doesn't change what I said in my post though. Locking down a week earlier last year wouldn't help the flu issue that I referred to.

@bluetuesdayy
You ask where it says schools are closing?
It doesn't however my children's school closed yesterday (3 days early for half term).
My friends private school also went online only on Monday.
It's already happening...