Are we locking down again?

[Dancerinthedark01]

And if so will they do more of the furlough and shutting things down?

Schools?

Please No!

I’m reading that this might be happening.

Big quote fail and sorry forgot to @ poster
@backformoreagain

Still don't want a Lockdown and don't believe it will happen though

"What has been lost is that ambitious mentality to try and fix things"

As I wrote in my pp, "there's still so much to be fixed", what I don't know is who could fix things, or how. How do we get that ambitious mentality back?

@SoItWas

My own problem with being furloughed again, is only getting 80% of my wages. I'm already on a fairly tight budget, my idea of luxury these days is a few sausage rolls from the bakery, or a cheap takeaway.

I would still rather get 80% wages than there be mass severe illness and death though. If the R rate was high enough, and we started running out of ventilators, oxygen etc, restrictions would be necessary (and yet devastating in many other ways).

It's nothing to do with running out of ventilators and oxygen.

It's to do with the NHS being unable to provide the kind of care it should provide for other health conditions due to decades of underfunding and mismanagement.

Coupled with the fact that the UK has a very unhealthy population, this makes it not fit for purpose.

It all needs a rethink and Covid has just illustrated that.

I would be very surprised if there was a lockdown, now that it's fine throw the vulnerable under the bus, AKA living with Covid.

However, Kwarteng has said there would be no lockdown, which presages a U-turn if last year was anything to go by.

@Bizawit

The "grown up" nations are the ones like Germany that kept cases as low as possible going into the winter and adopted masks that work for the next few months,

[quote herecomesthsun]@Bizawit

The "grown up" nations are the ones like Germany that kept cases as low as possible going into the winter and adopted masks that work for the next few months,[/quote]
I don’t think cross country comparisons are particularly helpful or meaningful. There are too many variables at play.
I also don’t agree with vaccine passports or mandatory masking.

Well, if we are talking about "toddler" behaviour, as you were earlier, then that is what we are doing, and the "grown up" option is implementing a modicum of restrictions that have a better chance of keeping things open over the winter.

Just because you don’t agree with a FOURTH lockdown doesn’t mean you were a naysayer originally! I very much thought we should have locked down earlier in March 2020 faced with a novel virus, no Cheltenham, no allowing thousands of Spanish fans in to the football etc etc.

I would have supported a sooner lockdowns last year in Dec too. But with an END GOAL. (Vaccinations)

We are beyond lockdowns now unfortunately for some. Even the biggest lockdown supporters (Ferguson etc) don’t think that is what needs to happen now.

In fact the only place I hear anyone talk about lockdown is on here!

These grown up nations don't have an NHS do they? Has anyone explored that? Their populations are generally healthier and they take more responsibility for their own health and well being because they know that is valuable.

The more time goes on, the more clear this is.

I don't think we will lock down but just return to masks and distancing. We can't afford it surely?

Just read that Morocco is closing it's borders to the UK, Germany & Netherlands due to AY4.2 variant and I can see Spain doing similar too. I am on a Benidorm group and the amount of people testing positive on return is huge. Of course they could be getting it there or taking it out with them.

@Regulus

It is happening by the back door, we've just closed another two year groups, more than 2,500 students on line learning, not including all the others who currently have covid. We are not even sure we can open after half term.

Sounds like the school is hanging this badly

[quote herecomesthsun]@Bizawit

The "grown up" nations are the ones like Germany that kept cases as low as possible going into the winter and adopted masks that work for the next few months,[/quote]
Not just masks but medical grade masks. No-one is wearing cute fabric masks there.

yes, masks that work

@Dancerinthedark01

And if so will they do more of the furlough and shutting things down?

Schools?

Please No!

I’m reading that this might be happening.

Of course not Boris was quite categorical that once the restrictions were eased that was it forever. So probably they will be back in time for him to have Christmas with family and friends, but no one else will be allowed to.

@Dancerinthedark01 where on earth are you reading schools are closing?

@HesterShaw1

These grown up nations don't have an NHS do they? Has anyone explored that? Their populations are generally healthier and they take more responsibility for their own health and well being because they know that is valuable.

The more time goes on, the more clear this is.

France and Germany have well organised state healthcare systems, if that's what you mean. Possibly not completely free at point of delivery (we had to pay a few quid when I had an emergency pregnancy scan 13 or so years ago) but very, very well funded and subsidised, nonetheless.

I can’t see U.K. adopting same level masks as Germany

But I also agree with pp about overall health - we’ve known about risk factors for ages. Obviously much can’t be changed but some can.

Yes I know @herecomesthsun. My DP is German.

But yes it's not free at point of delivery. And people pay a large amount of tax/insurance for it. And it's also properly organised.

Here in the UK, very many people have got used to not taking responsibility for their own health, weight, fitness, diet and wellbeing. And I know the reasons are very complex and cannot all be because we have a health system free at the point of delivery. It's more than that. But in my opinion, it is a factor.

And a health system which needs society to shut down regularly to "save" it is no health system at all

BBC just announced there will be a press conference this afternoon. Think they said Whitty will be talking about current situation. Not sure what time it will be on.

We haven't had a Downing St press conference for a while have we?

Speak to a friend everyday with DD aged sixteen.

Mine is sixteen too. Summer born.

Friend's DD was sitting next to someone who got covid last week.

My DD's teacher is off with Covid.
My DD did three lateral flow tests but going to college tomorrow.

I spoke to the nurse at DD's college to find out when they were getting their second vaccination.

The nurse said the government had issued instructions that young people would not be given a second jab until they are seventeen.

For my DD that is ten months away.

We cannot surely be expecting to continue to send young people into sixth form colleges and schoo sixth forms in that situation?

It is not sustainable.

I am a single parent, double jabbed of course, waiting for my booster jab. But if anything happens to me, there will be noone to run a home for my DD.

How is that sustainable?

Although nearly 12000 people have died in the UK of Covid since that "Freedom Day" nonsense, and our rapidly rising number of infections is the highest in the world, at some point in the distant future, our glorious leader will mutter something like "No-one could have predicted..." and "Alas, we must..." That will be the point they will introduce some half-hearted measure backed with a three word slogan. By that time, the horse will, of course, have bolted.

@herecomesthsun

Well, if we are talking about "toddler" behaviour, as you were earlier, then that is what we are doing, and the "grown up" option is implementing a modicum of restrictions that have a better chance of keeping things open over the winter.

Honestly this debate has nothing to do with maturity, (and to try to reduce the debate to this is, quite frankly, rather childish). This is a difference in perspective, balancing of priorities, risk assessment and (perhaps) values. For example, you favour a more authoritarian approach to managing this crisis; such an approach is not compatible with my value system.

I know there are many who find such things difficult to accept and would like to pretend that there is one, singular way of looking at this situation and anyone who disagrees is immoral/ childish/ ignorant of the “science”.