Are we locking down again?

[Dancerinthedark01]

And if so will they do more of the furlough and shutting things down?

Schools?

Please No!

I’m reading that this might be happening.

It seems that the wave is finding the parts that previously escaped.

Telling 43,000 positive people in the SW that they were negative helped somewhat.

@REDHERO might depend on how many staff are off not just the number of pupils with COVID

@QueenofKattegat

I assume the medics are just trying to not get to a stage with ambulances queuing up outside A&E with no beds or staff for extremely ill people to go to

Doesn't wash. Has happened every winter for years. My aunt died in an ambulance outside a hospital in December 2015 because they had no capacity. Remember the lockdown of 2014/2015? Me either.

It's the potential numbers.

Most things open, accidents happening at work, on roads, slippy pavements, because it's cold, when drunk, plus a respiratory virus.

We all know the NHS struggles each winter.

Still fuck the medics eh, what do they know. Tell them to do their jobs better, longer, cut corners, put two people in one bed. I mean I am sure all the population who are not medics could do a better job, with as much care and patience. I mean what exactly do A&E doctors do all day? And what do they know about healthcare.

This government won't even tell people to wear a mask...

The Education Secretary is busy trying to make next year's exams harder than before with fewer top grades (because this year's Y13 haven't had the shittest educational detriment out of any year, no of course they haven't YES THEY HAVE).
Which will be interesting as they are unlikely to be able to hold fair exams next year based on the current numbers of sixth formers off sick with Covid, schools closing yeargroups etc.

@RedHero SW
We are seeing the results of the pcr fiasco and its only beginning to be reflected in the numbers. I think it's a lot worse than current data suggests.

My primary school have brought back low level restrictions
Masks on parents at collection/ drop off
Kids back to eating lunch in classrooms
Assemblies in the hall have been stopped

@Lovelymincepies

It's not going anywhere and it's doing what viruses do - mutate and learn to spread easier. It's the amount of deaths and hospital admissions that need to be closely looked at and a death not just written off as COVID if there were other factors and they likely would have died anyway from trauma, cancer etc.

Vaccines stop people getting so sick from it, like the flu vaccine does. We just have to learn to live with it and start funding the NHS properly.

That’s a great solution but funding the NHS properly is not going to bring cases down right now. As a long term outlook we absolutely must double our funding and invest in more staff and more hospitals to be better equipped to cope with the additional stress Covid now presents going forward.

As things are right now we can not ‘just live with it’, the next few weeks will show this even more, when we either adopt the necessary mitigation’s to quell the swell or we kick the can further down the road and we have to take a harder approach.

@ExceptionalAssurance
I think I said that some people will ignore the ‘don’t visit family and friends’ rule. My point is that you can’t go to restaurants if they have been closed by the government. The same for pubs, shops, schools, gyms and so on and so on. Similarly, if the government puts a legal limit on numbers in shops, you will be waiting outside in long lines again. You might not want to do so but you can’t do anything about it.

Masks - who knows? If cases are bad and the government decide it is the way forward, I suspect you WILL wear masks, especially if the alternative is a hefty fine. Alternatively, you could claim you are exempt which seems to be the way forward for anti-maskers 😉. Lockdown, you don’t have much choice unless your exemption allows you to enter closed buildings.

To be fair, I really think any restrictions will be for short periods and very, very localised. This is a Tory government and they like people to make money.

@Waxonwaxoff0

Also lockdowns should NOT be the default to "save the NHS." Protecting the NHS is not the job of the general public and it's disgusting that it seems to be the only consideration. I do not feel the need to "protect the NHS", that is what the bloody government should be doing with the tax money we pay and if it was spent correctly then we wouldn't be in this mess. If the NHS collapses it is the fault of our PM and co, not the fault of Bob down the road not wearing a mask in Tesco.

This.

The household contact rule is the one that annoys me. Kids with positive parents still in school; staff with partners or kids (or both!) still in work. Totally unjabbed under18's freely mixing when they are very, very likely carriers.... it's not a shock the schools numbers are so high.

That needs to be stopped straightaway, and that alone would make a huge difference to the current numbers.

In terms of other restrictions, we should never have let the masks stop, as getting them back will be a nightmare, and the same with the hand-hygiene.

Windows need to be open wherever possible, and heating turned up or clothing rules relaxed if needed, particularly in schools. School uniforms are lovely, but a hoody and warm pants with an open window is a lot better than uniform/closed windows/covid.

I don't think there will be another full lockdown - I don't think there's the money/willingness or political energy for one, and certainly not over Christmas.

I dont see how keeping mouths shut about the NHS buckling helps the NHS? If its taboo to say they cant do there job does that honestly help the staff? My LA do this with SEN education. 2000 sen tribunals a year but evidently only 5 complaints. The other 2000 disgruntled parents took there gripes to a judge so got help that way. But on the ground nothing changes for schools and budgets are cut further more. But if no one complains then it can only ever fall apart even more as on the face of it parents are happy and grateful and also there is no push back from schools. So does that help the teacher with 30 kids, having possibly a child who needs a TA but hasnt got one. Besides, schools work. They really do even under enormous pressure. So does that mean it's a non issue? Meanwhile teachers want to leave the profession but as long as we dont talkabout why in case its sern as a personal attack on the teachers and not in fact the education system.

It's not about saying "if you can do it better please do!" But I'm not sure saying it's all wonderful dont complain helps either. If it's all fine then that's great surely? Nothing to talk about. This is the service we have, like it or lump it. I'm sure the Gp with 3000 patients per head would prefer to be told it's all fantastic than hear a complaint. And if the bosses says the gp and the patients are all happy then why put more cash in? Everyone is happy so sure that gp can cope with a few more numbers? Who cares if people are dieing in ambulances anyway? At least they got a ambulance? It's not my choice of death but there you go.

By the way I have never complained about a personal teacher because I dont want people to take personal affront. It's about my child. Never the teacher. If a teacher cant meet my childs needs it's the system I go after. But I have only ever been able to change my childs outcome. Never the way the system works or help the next child. There is no lessons learnt so in that respect, complaints are pointless. So maybe things do need to completely break down.

But please dont let it turn into a personal attack on individuals if people like a OP has said that lack of capacity leads to death. Half the NHS budget went on being sued last year according to a programme I watched this week. Im no medic and I'm no teacher and I could not do either job. But i can sympathise with both professions if I see them struggle. But that wont stop me complaining to my LA to get a better outcome for my child. It's not about the school. It's about the child. The school only exists for its pupils. Much like the NHS.

@HandlebarLadyTash

My primary school have brought back low level restrictions Masks on parents at collection/ drop off Kids back to eating lunch in classrooms Assemblies in the hall have been stopped

Yes, because primary schools are so good at deciding what works in public health.

Masks on parents at collection/ drop off: pointless if outside and distancing is taking place
Kids back to eating lunch in classrooms: oh dear, how very very sad
Assemblies in the hall have been stopped: maybe this is the only one of these measures that makes any sense, but if assemblies are only once a week does that really make a difference?

This is another thing I don't get. It isn't possible to do 'this' forever. There will be nothing left to 'save' if we have to continue like this forever. There will be no travel industry left, no hospitality industry left, hundreds of thousands will be unemployed, more made homeless as a result. People will be at their wits end, isolated, mentally crippled. What will be left to 'save'?"

The government is in so much debt (roughly £2,224.5 billion or put another way £2,224,500,000,000). The NHS, schools, community mental health care provision and support, social housing, and the institutions in general, have all been struggling for a long time. The minimum wage compared to the cost of living, is too low, food bank use and general poverty levels were already on the rise pre covid.

Nurses were on strike in N.I, in Dec 2019, that's what it took to bring the assembly back (after politicians decided to take a three year fully paid break). Not forgetting the £490,000,000 of tax payer money, that funded cash for ash there, pre covid. If the DUP loose enough votes at the next election, I think there'll be a push for a border poll. N.I voted remain, and that could be a way for them to revert back to the EU. Scotland also voted remain, I don't know if or when Scotland could hold another referendum, but if it did, it only needs to go 5-6% the other way.

I think the "this" we were doing before coronavirus, was already non sustainable long term. Further restrictions will make things worse, without a doubt, but there's still so much to be fixed anyway. The rising costs of heating and electric will really affect those on the bread line, this winter.

Yes, because primary schools are so good at deciding what works in public health

They’re using the measures that were introduced by this government previously?

Why is that such a bad thing?

God forbid that schools want to be sensible.

@SoItWas

This is another thing I don't get. It isn't possible to do 'this' forever. There will be nothing left to 'save' if we have to continue like this forever. There will be no travel industry left, no hospitality industry left, hundreds of thousands will be unemployed, more made homeless as a result. People will be at their wits end, isolated, mentally crippled. What will be left to 'save'?"

The government is in so much debt (roughly £2,224.5 billion or put another way £2,224,500,000,000). The NHS, schools, community mental health care provision and support, social housing, and the institutions in general, have all been struggling for a long time. The minimum wage compared to the cost of living, is too low, food bank use and general poverty levels were already on the rise pre covid.

Nurses were on strike in N.I, in Dec 2019, that's what it took to bring the assembly back (after politicians decided to take a three year fully paid break). Not forgetting the £490,000,000 of tax payer money, that funded cash for ash there, pre covid. If the DUP loose enough votes at the next election, I think there'll be a push for a border poll. N.I voted remain, and that could be a way for them to revert back to the EU. Scotland also voted remain, I don't know if or when Scotland could hold another referendum, but if it did, it only needs to go 5-6% the other way.

I think the "this" we were doing before coronavirus, was already non sustainable long term. Further restrictions will make things worse, without a doubt, but there's still so much to be fixed anyway. The rising costs of heating and electric will really affect those on the bread line, this winter.

At the start of this outbreak, the government said everything would be thrown at this to try and over come the virus. Analogies to the war were made.

After the Second World War, debt was pushed up in order to pay to rebuilt the country. It did not cripple us. Out of that came the NHS and social housing.

What has been lost is that ambitious mentality to try and fix things and a lack of understanding as to how government debt works.

@Iggly

Yes, because primary schools are so good at deciding what works in public health

They’re using the measures that were introduced by this government previously?

Why is that such a bad thing?

God forbid that schools want to be sensible.

It's a bad thing when you do things that make no sense.

Honestly no I don’t think we are.
Hubby works in a role that gets a ‘heads up’ every other stage of lockdowns he’s known shortly before that it was coming and what it would be.

There is no lockdown on the horizon right now. Hope that’s helps. Yes numbers are up, yes people are still contracting the virus, but lockdown was never about how many people caught it, it was entirely about how many were in intensive care, how over run the hospitals were and how many deaths were occurring because of the virus.

All of these factors are still very much under control compared to the other lockdowns

It makes sense to follow public health guidelines actually @NearlyAlwaysInsane

@PurpleDaisies

It seems that the wave is finding the parts that previously escaped.

Telling 43,000 positive people in the SW that they were negative helped somewhat.

Indeed. That piece of news seems to be kept fairly quiet to date. I imagine no one really knows how high it is in the SW now then. It might be at Ipswich levels who knows?

@LillianGish

Britain could do worse than look at what they are doing in Europe with vaccine passports and masks. Fewer deaths and lower rates of infection. Part of me wonders if Johnson actually wants the chaos to continue in the UK so he can continue to use the pandemic as a smokescreen for the effects of Brexit. That certainly what it looks like when viewed from the other side of the Channel.

I'm not convinced Johnson is clever enough to have A Plan (mendacious enough certainly, clever enough though?)

Covid as a smokescreen for Brexit chaos is not inconvenient for him however.

Just as the mess Westminster has made of it is not inconvenient for Sturgeon.

I think we need to re vax all those with AZ. I want to know the % each day who are positive and whether vaxxed or not and which one. Of course it's spreading more as more are catching mildly. Also 8% of secondary kids infected according to ons!
We really shouldnt have stopped household isolation.
With no masks i n schools we have loads of viruses going around which will make anyone with covid worse.

The south west issue has really taken off now local areas shot from green to black

[quote BustopherPonsonbyJones]@ExceptionalAssurance
I think I said that some people will ignore the ‘don’t visit family and friends’ rule. My point is that you can’t go to restaurants if they have been closed by the government. The same for pubs, shops, schools, gyms and so on and so on. Similarly, if the government puts a legal limit on numbers in shops, you will be waiting outside in long lines again. You might not want to do so but you can’t do anything about it.

Masks - who knows? If cases are bad and the government decide it is the way forward, I suspect you WILL wear masks, especially if the alternative is a hefty fine. Alternatively, you could claim you are exempt which seems to be the way forward for anti-maskers 😉. Lockdown, you don’t have much choice unless your exemption allows you to enter closed buildings.

To be fair, I really think any restrictions will be for short periods and very, very localised. This is a Tory government and they like people to make money.[/quote]
There are people who have already told us about pubs that were illegally operating in the last lockdown, though. I also heard of hairdressers still covertly offering services though I never went myself. Some businesses are more easily able to keep going illegally than others. Obviously not all.

As for masks, I always complied with mask laws, but it was a choice on my part. There's no risk whatsoever of a heavy fine if you state you can't wear one due to trauma and I could very easily have done that if I wanted. As could anyone. That is not an exemption that can be policed.

&The Education Secretary is busy trying to make next year's exams harder than before with fewer top grades (because this year's Y13 haven't had the shittest educational detriment out of any year, no of course they haven't YES THEY HAVE).*
Which will be interesting as they are unlikely to be able to hold fair exams next year based on the current numbers of sixth formers off sick with Covid, schools closing yeargroups etc.
This. I am so fucking angry right now. 2 out of dd1 year 13 teachers now have covid and they get no cover. This year is worse so far than last year. School had no COVID up to Half Term but this year it has gone crazy.

[quote BustopherPonsonbyJones]@Bizawit
Well, what’s your plan? To want covid to be over so much, you’ll ignore it so it might go away? That’s a bit ‘toddler playing hide and seek’, isn’t it?

Perhaps you REALLY need to understand Covid ‘is with us forever’ and that means we will need to adapt at times when cases soar, particularly if hospitals are affected. So yes, we might need to do ‘this’….forever. Hopefully not and hopefully not all the time…but it might be forever. We don’t know![/quote]
I do understand covid is with us forever. Which is why I refuse to live my life dealing with this endless threat of “lockdown” nonsense.
Covid is an infectious virus like many others; we have been living with such illnesses and disease since the beginning of time. It’s part of being human and living in social groups.
In terms of the current pandemic, I’m glad we now have a series of vaccines that can help protect those who are vulnerable from severe illness and death. I got vaccinated , mostly to do my civic duty. Otherwise I would like to be allowed to live my life, without the government constantly interfering with when I get to leave my house, see my mum etc. I’d like my toddler to be able to go to her swimming lessons and music classes without them getting shut down every 5 minutes, or introducing ridiculous social distancing rules which ruin half the games and fun. I don’t think that is unreasonable.
It’s not about pretending Covid doesn’t exist (like a toddler); it’s about being a grown up and recognising that disease and death are one part of life, and that there are risks/ harms in life that are beyond our control. We just have to get on with it as best we can.

My own problem with being furloughed again, is only getting 80% of my wages. I'm already on a fairly tight budget, my idea of luxury these days is a few sausage rolls from the bakery, or a cheap takeaway.

I would still rather get 80% wages than there be mass severe illness and death though. If the R rate was high enough, and we started running out of ventilators, oxygen etc, restrictions would be necessary (and yet devastating in many other ways).