Plan B

[edisonbulb]

Are they nudging us to plan B with the presser on Sunday the articles in the papers the headlines on Sky and BBC being the worst in Europe.

I can't see another lockdown happening but masks easy fix and work from home well for some.

@HijadelaLuna

coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare Yep plus this says that actually 823 People are on ventilators in the uk - but not anyone in icu is ventilated. Couldn‘t find any source for France.

Not everyone this should say

@siestalady

This post is like covid bingo:

Cautious
Sensible
Lockdowns our only answer
Ourselves to blame
High rates of infection
New variant
Sleepwalking into disaster

You missed off:
Ripping through
Selfish
Ventilation
Social distancing

Oh you are funny

Sciotlands casss were bad a few weeks back , bare in mind their kids go back early
We are doing a lot of tests in the uk so will pick up even mild cases like my ds who has no symptoms , but picked up
On LFT he has to do twice weekly for college
In my opinion its hospitalisations and deaths that matter more so

@siestalady

This post is like covid bingo:

Cautious
Sensible
Lockdowns our only answer
Ourselves to blame
High rates of infection
New variant
Sleepwalking into disaster

You missed off:
Ripping through
Selfish
Ventilation
Social distancing

Doing the sensible mitigation stuff is a way to minimise the risk of another lockdown, surely?

@Lostinacloud it was a valid point but doesn't suit the narrative
If your doing more tests you will pick up more caSss even those that are Asymptomatic

@Foghead

If we get to the stage where hospitals are inundated and we need to go into lockdown, then what’s the point of vaccine/health passports? I honestly don’t see the point as vaccinated people are still ending up in hospitals.

Simply put, because they cant. Not possible to magic staff out of nowhere. Also, they dont want to. They want to run down the nhs to point where we are all so fed up they can break it up and privatise it.

I love the idea that masks don't work. It's like people think they were invented just for COVID. Have you never seen a dentist or surgeon wearing one?!

We can continue to wear masks indefinitely. It's not uncommon in many East Asian countries, when you're unwell or during flu season, you wear a mask in public. They do it conscientiously, for the benefit of others.

@UtterlyUnimaginativeUsername

The unvaccinated are not causing excess hospitalisations or deaths In Ireland, 90% of adults are vaccinated. Only 30% of ICU patients are unvaccinated. That means that 70% of the ICU patients are coming from only 10% of the population. The unvaccinated are very definitely having a disproportionate impact on the health system.

Being vaccinated clearly doesnt stop you catching it, transmitting it or ending up in ICU.

@Notsandwiches - Being vaccinated clearly doesnt stop you catching it, transmitting it or ending up in ICU.

I would think that 70% of ICU patients coming from 10% of the population makes it pretty clear vaccinations are very effective at dramatically reducing your chances of ending up in ICU.

@Dancerinthedark01 If they cant be bothered to vote on it i cant be bothered to obey it!!

I love the idea that masks don't work. It's like people think they were invented just for COVID. Have you never seen a dentist or surgeon wearing one

So you would be happy for a surgeon doing an operation on you to rock up in a paisley print mask from Boden!!

Someone i know went to a hospital appointment in a reusable mask and was immediately told to take it off and given a disposable one by the nurse.

Ministers should encourage the public to do their bit by using the NHS responsibly,

OK. Except that people avoiding treatment was what created the last backlog.

The NHS confederation are the lot who made spectacularly wrong predictions about September and October, by the way.

Will plan b even work if cases are so hjgh

Would they not have pass new laws on mask to make plan b happen.

I thought public transport still had to wear masks but seems thats not the case.

@HijadelaLuna the only source I have for the france figures is in french from a French newspaper that prints daily figures. I see you have already found the uk government source I used. I don’t think the difference in numbers of icu beds per capita makes a difference to my comparison point. The basic figures of hospitalisations are very similar between the two countries despite the large difference in daily case numbers.

Anecdotally i can tell you that despite the masks on public transport and in shops, the fear appears to have largely faded in France as well and if anything the vaccine passports make people feel even more inclined to be able to remove their masks inside at private home gatherings and act as though covid is no longer a threat. It is also the case that hardly anyone tests anymore, home tests are just not a thing and school children don’t test either.

I have seen “Plan B’s” narrative roll out in France and no doubt the U.K. will follow suit very shortly. It goes like this;

‘Oh dear’ cases are rising really fast and not coming down (no reference to the flat-ish hospitalisations and deaths)
Nobody wants to lockdown again and we (the government) don’t want that either, in fact we simply can never lockdown again.
The answer? - Vaccine passports for entry to domestic services and events.
Don’t worry about personal freedom and choice, the passports will only be applied to large events, concerts, sports matches etc - that sounds sensible and reasonable right?
……until shortly after when they will apply to almost every part of your daily life, including employees at places where the passport is used and potentially applicable to all over 12’s once that part of the vaccine program has been given time to fully role out.

Disgusting. When is this going go end!! Does this vaccine even work? How? Soon to be 3 jabs for everyone and it's still not slowing the transmition down or death rates and we're all going to be back in masks and working from home! None of it makes sense, I'm so sick of it now! How many jabs will we have to have untill they decide to let us have our freedoms back Or is it 3 jabs for life?! I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I've had my jabs I've followed the rule but I've had enougph.

@3asAbird

Would they not have pass new laws on mask to make plan b happen.

I thought public transport still had to wear masks but seems thats not the case.

They extended the coronavirus act by 6 months a fews dads ago so i assume it was included in that.

I live in Italy and I massively support vaccine passports. I have taken the risk to get vaccinated, so should this vocal and large minority. They are disproportionately impacting the health system out of a misplaced sense of what freedom means. Happy if they want to pay to get tested regularly, that's fine and pay the vaccine fear tax. Brexit has shown people don't always know what is in their best interests sadly.

I feel like we putting all our eggs in 1 vaccine basket sure it helps but its not the magic bullet.
A high prevalence of covid infections leads to loads of cases even with the double vaccinated.

France hasent always had peak at same time.
Have they had wave 3?
All over Europe its winter so maybe others will struggle later.
I am not sure if this new delta mutation is helping matters.

Apparently France have had 4 waves and are beginning to talk about the fifth The waves have fallen out of sync with the uk though, no idea why.
Israel is the country too look at for showing the future. Seems there will be a huge wave after most people are vaccinated, into which they will scatter booster doses and eventually the wave will subside again (almost as if waves naturally peak and flow no matter what the human intervention).

We have an outbreak at work right now. This is a building with 300+ people, lots of overseas visitors every day. All overseas visitors are astounded by our lack of controls.

Mid outbreak when people are dropping like flies, tonight there's a whole team meeting plus drinks afterwards. That's just insane. Hundreds of people in a small space mid outbreak. It's just mad. I don't want to go but work are pressurising us all, and the reason is because our stupid government want us all back in the office!!

@Delatron

Interesting data from France *@Lostinacloud* I see the usual suspects are choosing to ignore those very key figures

Our problem is that the NHS is overwhelmed every winter. We need to focus on that issue and investment and not lockdown again. People also seem to forget France didn’t lockdown again this year when we did. They let cases (the ones they tested for) bubble away at around 25,000 to 30,000 cases for FOUR months. Whilst we had very low cases due to lockdown. Where was all the criticism of France then? Not doing anything etc? Maybe that four months was their exit wave and this four months (from end of July) is ours.

That was France’s Delta wave, which was weaker than experienced in the UK and they didn’t let it bubble along, there was a reconfinement in April with school holidays lengthened to bring it down.

Also, regarding the French hospital figures mentioned by lostinacloud, they are currently 20% of capacity. I don’t think you can compare icu and critical care - i understand reanimation is more in line with ICU while soins critique is much broader than ICU. Cases are rising slowly but currently less than 50 per 100 000 so considerably lower than the 434 today in the UK and underneath the alert threshold. (COVID tracker.fr is a great data resource ).

Universal mask wearing indoors from 6 years and up, vaccine passports and prompt vaccination of 12 - 19 yrs olds (70% fully vaxxed) all seemed to have helped enormously and though I’m sure cases will rise over the winter, it’s from a low base. I really don’t understand at all why more effort isn’t being made in the UK to stop the virus circulating at such a high level through mitigation measures and try to avoid a real lockdown.

Its all over the news today. Nudge

Yep @edisonbulb, here it comes. It will now build and build and build until the majority are desperate for anything to save us going into lockdown and school closures again and so welcome in the vaccine passport.

Maybe it’s a bit too cynical but perhaps the uk needed the case rates to rise in order to introduce the passports?
France introduced them to all but force better vaccine uptake. The uk don’t have that issue but do want the vaccine passports. If you think about it, they’ve let it spread since July and especially around schools so the percentage of the population that have now caught it and arguably become immune is higher than ever before. This could mean that when the vaccine passport is introduced, less and less people will be left to catch it and therefore cases will naturally start to go down. However, it appears as if that was due to the introduction of the vaccine passport

"but also we should try to achieve the kind of national mobilisation that we achieved in the first and second waves, where the public went out of their way to support and help the health service"

This pisses me off. We all stayed at home. Our children missed out on education. We got vaccinated. And now we are potentially being asked AGAIN to save the NHS by missing out on seeing our loved ones. The responsibility seems to be on us to curtail our lives and not the government or the NHS. The NHS are seriously over estimating how much good will is left towards them.