Plan B

[edisonbulb]

Are they nudging us to plan B with the presser on Sunday the articles in the papers the headlines on Sky and BBC being the worst in Europe.

I can't see another lockdown happening but masks easy fix and work from home well for some.

@Foghead

Plan b should be get everyone’s underlying health as well as can be. Get blood tests, test for vitamin levels (especially d) And other markers for good health, promote healthy eating and get people moving. In fact, that should have been plan a as it seems that vaccine or no vaccine, underlying health is still the biggest factor.

No. There’s absolutely no way I am having blood tests. I don’t care if it meant I couldn’t leave the house, that would be a step too far for me. I just about managed to have the jabs, I couldn’t do this. I’m very doubtful whether I’ll have a booster (if I’m ever offered), I can’t have annual injections

If masks are useless how come every other country in Europe are using them snd looking at us and rubbing their heads - I work in a global organisation and the rest of the world think we're all bat shit crazy

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest it's the unvaccinated alone or even the majority transmitting Covid.

Given the proportion of the population that is unvaccinated of course it’s not going to be the unvaccinated doing the majority of the transmitting. That’s not relevant. What is relevant is that it’s the unvaccinated are taking up a disproportionate amount of nhs resources.

@FlyLight

The glaringly obvious issue with vaccine passports is that the vaccine doesn't stop people catching or spreading covid so is not only discriminatory but utterly pointless. Ten friends went out for a fortieth birthday to a club last week, 8 now have covid, two pretty badly. All double jabbed. Not even allowing the option of a negative test is ridiculous.

As far as I know, countries with Covid passes issue them for fully vaccinated people and count those with a negative test as equivalent. At least where I am. Dd didn't have a pass but gained admittance after testing.

We have masks mandated in Scotland - our ‘numbers’ are awful. Clearly not working

Really? The official case map sure makes it look like Scotland is doing better (see pic).

Masks are not a panacea, but they do make a difference. N95s in particular. The science overwhelmingly supports that now.

@Milkbottlelegs

The NHS data that shows many more vaccinated than unvaccinated in hospital/dying as a number rather than a percentage.

For example in 100 people 90 are vaccinated and 10 unvaccinated. In hospital are 5 unvaccinated and 40 vaccinated. You could say 50% of unvaccinated people end up in hospital and the statement would be true but it wouldn't mean that there were more unvaccinated people in hospital.

I'm not knocking the vaccines as they've done a good job reducing serious illness but according to the data it's still the over 65s who end up in hospital and the over 75s who are dying and I can't imagine many of those are unvaccinated.

@QueenofKattegat

What do you honestly think masks will do? Scotland have mandatory masks - look at their case rates.

The vast, vast majority of people will keep the same mask in their car/coat pocket and pull it out when forced to wear one. What use do you honestly believe this is?

Masks are a measure to appease the anxious. Nothing more.

I thought this, surly masks would only work if we all used a new medical grade mask every time we went somewhere crowded.

I would think the unwashed reusable masks carry more germs than not having one, what with touching the mask and then touching things in a supermarket for example.

Do we think plan B is going to be enough?

They need to do it bloody soon.

Scotland is certainly doing better on its infection rate
I can see plan B coming into force just look at our European counterparts their rates are much much lower than ours because they have mitigation rules in place
No fan of any restrictions but this is getting ridiculous

I was in Germany last week which has a higher rate of vaccination and has a vaccine plus model so masks in indoor spaces, a very few small places had a numbers limit but this was the exception rather than the rule, vaccine pass to be shown on entry to places such as museums and restaurants (not shops). No drama, no fuss, just a country getting about its business as usual and demonstrating how one can live with Covid without skyrocketing cases like ours. It was very liberating and lovely. It means my son has teaching in person and may finally have one year of being a normal university student (fingers crossed). Attitudes here are utterly ridiculous - it's all me, me, me and not about being a part of a community.

@IndigoC

We have masks mandated in Scotland - our ‘numbers’ are awful. Clearly not working

Really? The official case map sure makes it look like Scotland is doing better (see pic).

Masks are not a panacea, but they do make a difference. N95s in particular. The science overwhelmingly supports that now.

Wales also have mandated face coverings and aren’t doing well at all

@zafferana

Masks are pointless in almost all instances and fabric masks are the most pointless. A virus is so tiny that you can't see it under a microscope. Does anyone truly believe that a pretty piece of patterned fabric is any kind of barrier against something so tiny? Woman in the veg aisle of the supermarket this morning, fabric mask with nose poking out. I thought it made a good example of utter futility. Why bother to wear such a pointless thing and then have your nose poking out? But that's mask wearing, utterly fucking pointless!

Viruses are microscopic but the particles don't just float from you on their own. They are carried in coughs and sneezes and animated speech , OK so breath vapour is not as containable but a mask certainly reduces the amount expelled.

Here’s an interesting comparison;

UK data as of today at 5pm
Number of people hospitalised - 7,749
(we don’t know how many of these are ill with covid or in for a broken leg and testing positive)
Number of people in icu beds - 823

France data as of yesterday evening;
Number of people hospitalised - 6,468
Number of people in icu beds - 1,049

The daily case rate may be much lower in France but the hospitalisations are really not that far apart.

As quite a few of us have been saying for a while, we really shouldn’t need to focus so much on the case dates anymore when the link between cases and hospitalisations and deaths has been broken/reduced by the vaccine program, particularly amongst the over 65’s higher risk groups.

Who knows

I’m double vaccinated, wfh and dgaf really about masks or not

It’s still generally annoying if so

@IndigoC

We have masks mandated in Scotland - our ‘numbers’ are awful. Clearly not working

Really? The official case map sure makes it look like Scotland is doing better (see pic).

Masks are not a panacea, but they do make a difference. N95s in particular. The science overwhelmingly supports that now.

Is that now?

Didn’t Scotland just go through a big rise? Then fall

Why are we still having this tedious fucking dialogue about vaccines not preventing transmission??? They reduce hospitalisation and serious illness - so despite cases being up hospital cases have not risen to the degree you’d expect.

This is absolutely supported by the data so those anti vaxxers on here can you please change the fucking record and find something else to argue about instead.

@OldScrappyAndHungry if you have a read, you’ll find that posters are talking about vaccines not preventing transmission relates to the pointless implementation of vaccine passports.
Nobody on here is anti-vax, the fact they work and reduce hospitalisation and death despite large case numbers is another reason not to panic about high case numbers and so another reason not to introduce an unscientific, freedom encroaching domestic vaccine passport.

@weddingguestdec

Do we think plan B is going to be enough?

It would probably have been enough if it had been plan A. Who knows now? Probably not.

I’m not actually sure whether we have a plan c in the event that plan b doesn’t work.

I love the way people always come out with: "Work from home then" as if that will solve everything.

Who, exactly? All the key workers whose jobs require their physical presence to get the work done and keep the country running?

@butterflyze

I love the way people always come out with: "Work from home then" as if that will solve everything.

Who, exactly? All the key workers whose jobs require their physical presence to get the work done and keep the country running?

Yes but even just taking out those from circulation who CAN wfh will make a huge difference, no public transport crammed to the rafters, no cross office infections, its rife here again and a lot of it is being caught on trains/tubes/buses and offices

@butterflyze I work in the city. It's packed. Tubes are packed, pubs are packed, pizza express is packed. If all those people at home, surely it would make an impact? Most city jobs can be from home.

@Lostinacloud so why mention the story about France then?? No context of how ill anyone is just another “bash the vaccine” anecdote .

[quote weddingguestdec]@butterflyze I work in the city. It's packed. Tubes are packed, pubs are packed, pizza express is packed. If all those people at home, surely it would make an impact? Most city jobs can be from home.[/quote]
WFH wont stop people going to Pizza Express.

@XenoBitch it will kind of - if you are wfh you won't be going for lunch with colleagues.