Is it just me or is this board getting a bit quieter?

[bumbleymummy]

That’s a good sign, right? :)

I support simple and easy mitigation measures

Masks? What else?

Spain officially requires either proof of vaccination or a negative PCR test for entry from the UK. There's a less stringent requirement for travellers from safer countries. It is of course different for permanent residents (including British who live over there, and also Spanish who live in the UK).

@TheGrumpyGoat

My family in Spain were completely bemused when I told them we’re encouraged to take 2 LFT’s a week. ‘What, when you’re not even ill?’. They have to pay 17 euros if they want an LFT.

Were they also bemused at our still very high ( much higher than Spain) death rate?

Funny isn't it. People want all the rewards of other safer countries but with none of the effort.

Time to cook. Perhaps I'll do a Spanish omelette.

Yes that’s what I said… proof of vaccination was all I needed. Hardly stringent.
Honestly, I have recently come back from a couple of months there. Other than masks, they do not have any additional mitigations to us. They test far less than us, and asymptomatic testing isn’t a thing.
So I’m interested as to whether you think that dropping LFT’s for healthcare workers/school children etc but introducing masks would take us from our 40000 cases a day to their 4000?

@TheGrumpyGoat

I support simple and easy mitigation measures

Masks? What else?

Interested too

@Tealightsandd

Funny isn't it. People want all the rewards of other safer countries but with none of the effort.

Time to cook. Perhaps I'll do a Spanish omelette.

That’s entirely my point… what effort? Masks? What else? Masks are the only thing that they have and we don’t.

People want all the rewards of other safer countries but with none of the effort

What does this even mean?

Oh and I love a Spanish omelette, my mother’s specialty . The first thing she cooked when I finally made it home in august!

@TheKeatingFive

People want all the rewards of other safer countries but with none of the effort

What does this even mean?

I am glad you asked that because i didn’t like to. 🤔 What’s Spanish Omelette got to do with anything? Strange.

@Tealightsandd

UK doesn't have falling death rates. We still have very high death rates. Hundreds being killed a week.

The rest of western Europe, yes, high levels of vaccination plus basic and easy mitigation measures, has led to low death rates and people living their life.

(Whether it's just their mitigation measures that has made the difference or if it's mostly using the mRNA vaccines, I don't know. As we know, AZ is good but 90+% efficacy of Pfizer and Moderna is better than 70+ of AZ.)

Please, they are not "being killed" no-one is out there stabbing them. They are (sadly) dying from a disease, much as over 1000 other people each day are dying from various other diseases. We don't go round saying that people dying from cancer are being killed in such a dramatic manner, so why say it of covid???

This still needs to play out over time.

We don't know what the long term effect of wearing masks has for immunity for other things.

We can't compare with other countries, because our health service has other pressures and our economy has other pressures - because we've fucked up things that others haven't.

We have higher levels of inequality than anywhere else in Europe. And higher levels of poor health as a result of obesity. And all the other health related issues associated with that. We have less doctors and nurses per head than other places.

We've had more and longer lockdowns than most places in Europe.

It basically means our capacity to cope with covid is significantly less than other places.

In terms of behaviour compliance has dropped (often out of necessity through poverty). We have incoming financial bombs dropping all over the place.

Elsewhere in Europe was never going to have the problems the UK had, because our underlying conditions mean that a lot of people couldn't stay home and have a massive distrust of our government.

We were always going to be more fucked because we are fat and poor and didn't have enough slack in the system.

shrug

Our response to covid isn't the problem. Its all the bits that go before responding to things thats the issue.

For example: Whats the difference between a country with class sizes of 20 who aren't rich, but also aren't dreadfully poor and a country with class sizes of 30 so of whom are really well off and others who only get fed cos a footballer campaigned for them to get lunch?

Think about it.

I firmly do not think the problem at this stage lies with mitigation issues, but institutionalised level to do with how our society as a whole functions.

No amount of mask wearing or covid passports is going to provide an adequate solution to compare with how other European countries are performing in terms of cases and deaths at this point.

The UK went into the pandemic like an elderly limping overweight pirate. Not a fit, healthly well fed and trained new recruit to the officer ranks of the army.

What we see now, is merely the legacy of how we fucked ourselves up the arse over the last 30 - 40 years.

Please, they are not "being killed" no-one is out there stabbing them. They are (sadly) dying from a disease, much as over 1000 other people each day are dying from various other diseases. We don't go round saying that people dying from cancer are being killed in such a dramatic manner, so why say it of covid???

Totally agree. Such dramatic language when there’s no need for it at all.

They test far less than us, and asymptomatic testing isn’t a thing.

They don't need to test. Fewer people are getting ill. Because infection rates are lower. They don't have the very high levels of hospitalisation and deaths we do.

They did a lot more than us in the first place, and their mask mandate is set to last until 2022. And a mask mandate does make a difference hence my wording, simple and easy.

Western Europe has higher vaccination levels than us now - of the 90%+ effective mRNA vaccines. Many have vaccine passports for entry to restaurants, bars, etc, and they started 12+ vaccination sooner than we did.

Hopefully our 12+ and booster programme will help catch us up. Otherwise I suppose people (in England) will keep on turning the other way whilst The Others get killed or disabled, NHS waiting lists rise higher, and even more NHS staff leave due to Long Covid, burn out, or PTSD.

And a mask mandate does make a difference hence my wording, simple and easy.

What actual evidence do we have for that?

Gosh @Tealightsandd aren't you just a little ray of sunshine.

@TheKeatingFive

And a mask mandate does make a difference hence my wording, simple and easy.

What actual evidence do we have for that?

I suspect you'll be waiting quite some time for an answer.

The Spanish omelette will be cold.

So you do think masks will take us from 40000 cases a day to 4000 a day then?

Interestingly, their initial lockdown, in which children couldn’t leave their houses for months, has been ruled unlawful by their courts.

The reports in today's media make it crystal clear that many of the deaths - thousands - were needless. This continues to be the case.

The UK is an outlier in western Europe - in having a 'vaccine just' and consequently many many deaths, rather than 'vaccine plus' - mitigation measures and therefore low case rates, fewer deaths - approach.

People did not die by accident. They were killed by failed negligent policy. The UK, specifically England, pursued and is continuing to pursue a 'let the bodies pile up' approach. People were killed.

Few other countries in the world were content to take a shrug and let hundreds a day die approach. We are an outlier.

Well, some outcomes are settled now, for example vaccines for 12+, so maybe less to argue about currently?

Yes, Spain has vaccine plus masks. That’s it.

Oh no, going to have to get that MN Covid Bingo card back out aren’t we.

@TheGrumpyGoat

So you do think masks will take us from 40000 cases a day to 4000 a day then?

This and what simple measures…