Is it just me or is this board getting a bit quieter?

[bumbleymummy]

That’s a good sign, right? :)

@MarshaBradyo re Scotland - not necessarily, in a scenario with so many variables

@herecomesthsun

We are a bit of an outlier, n'est-ce pas?

Presumably, the attitudes & behaviours encouraged by the "irreversible" freedom day have something to do with that .And the delays in vaccinating teens.

I am just hoping we won't be paying a high price for going into autumn & winter with relatively high rates (? could rates settle or even fall substantially, could we avoid having problems with flu + covid etc)

Aren't we doing lots more tests as well though?

@herecomesthsun

You see, I imagine we would be less liable to having a "fire breaker" if cases weren't so high going into the autumn.

You sound excited at the thought of a fire breaker. Bizarre

@herecomesthsun

according to scientific consensus, though it's complicated

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

To be clear, the science supports using masks, with recent studies suggesting that they could save lives in different ways: research shows that they cut down the chances of both transmitting and catching the coronavirus, and some studies hint that masks might reduce the severity of infection if people do contract the disease....

most scientists are confident that they can say something prescriptive about wearing masks. It’s not the only solution, says Gandhi, “but I think it is a profoundly important pillar of pandemic control”. As Digard puts it: “Masks work, but they are not infallible. And, therefore, keep your distance.”

That article is a year old, and doesn't take into account the transmissibility of Delta.

@herecomesthsun

You see, I imagine we would be less liable to having a "fire breaker" if cases weren't so high going into the autumn.

When's it supposed to be happening now?

@Pootle40 no I'd really like to avoid those sorts of restrictions over winter by sensible mitigations - bizarre that you read that into what I wrote.

(another poster just linked to a thread about a firebreaker and I was responding)

@IcedPurple

Masks are said to reduce infection rates by 20-25%.

"Said to"?

Or have been shown in rigourous real world experiments to do so?

Exactly, there are far too many variables for a properly controlled trial to get to the bottom of whether masks work in a real life situation and what difference if any they make.

Exactly, there are far too many variables for a properly controlled trial to get to the bottom of whether masks work in a real life situation and what difference if any they make.

But let's put them on four year olds and tell them it's fun.

Exactly, there are far too many variables for a properly controlled trial to get to the bottom of whether masks work in a real life situation and what difference if any they make.

Not to mention that in England, the arguments for a mask mandate have been made. And lost. People can agree or disagree but that is how it is. Happily for them, mask wearing is entirely within the individual's control and if as many those people who tell pollsters they want to 'keep masks' actually want to keep wearing masks - as opposed to vaguely thinking it's a good idea - then they can do so.

But I don't see the point in these circular arguments at this stage. Mind you, I guess I'm contributing to them myself!

Apologies, I was looking for the latest Nature update (they have consistently supported mask-wearing)

October 2021 one here

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02785-z#explore

"New data affirms the benefits of air filters and masks

Cheap air filters effectively scrub SARS-CoV-2 particles from hospital air and masks get gold standard approval"

I note that Germany are encouraging widespread wearing of medical quality masks, which would affect their figures.

We have FFP2s, which are fairly high quality but also re-usable.

@Bordois see my link

Despite the number of variables, it is possible to put together the evidence we have and come out with a scientific consensus broadly in favour of mask-wearing, which we have.

Just because something isn't legally mandated doesn't stop it making sense scientifically.

We aren't legally obliged to eat vegetables, say, or take exercise, but these are activities/ behaviours which are valuable and health giving.

Yes but what is meant by an "air filter" or a "mask"? In the UK it's always been the case that any old thing will do. Scarf over the face, couple of layers of home made cotton, a stretchy lycra based thing. "Mask" means a lot of different things. And of course they have to be worn in a particular way, changed after however often...

I really can't see that after a year or more of saying "cover your face" without any more detail on how, that the government in England or anywhere else is going to backtrack from a "no masks" position in England to suddenly recommending everyone has a specific type of mask.

So it's all a bit academic really, isn't it?

Why should it matter what the government tells us to do?

Surely as intelligent citizens we are capable of making mature decisions about health for ourselves.

How long do people think countries will keep mask mandated going?

Also if some masks protect wearer then people could do that instead

@herecomesthsun

Apologies, I was looking for the latest Nature update (they have consistently supported mask-wearing)

October 2021 one here

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02785-z#explore

"New data affirms the benefits of air filters and masks

Cheap air filters effectively scrub SARS-CoV-2 particles from hospital air and masks get gold standard approval"

I note that Germany are encouraging widespread wearing of medical quality masks, which would affect their figures.

We have FFP2s, which are fairly high quality but also re-usable.

That's about hospital settings, so not really transferable.

And the 'gold standard' study was also pre Delta. Given the obvious bias of the authors, I'm not sure it's all that golden.

In any case, as I said above, the mask mandate is gone in England. You can wear a mask if you want, but there's no point complaining about the lack of a 'mandate'.

@herecomesthsun

Why should it matter what the government tells us to do?

Surely as intelligent citizens we are capable of making mature decisions about health for ourselves.

Well exactly. You are free to choose to wear whatever mask you wish. But if it's not legally mandated, you can't demand other people do likewise.

Just as you can't insist other people eat 5 a day or stop smoking.

I'm not complaining about the lack of a mandate.

One argument for changing the law was that legal compulsion is probably less effective than persuading people to do the right thing with this.

We don't need a law to tell us to wear a mask, but it's still a good idea (indoors, in crowded setting etc) right now.

I don't demand that people around me wear a mask.

I'm just really glad that I live in a place where most people still do (indoors, in crowded places etc0

The other thing is that there is a community minded aspect to this, as non mask wearers can infect people around them, and it would be nice to live in a society with lower rates generally and where the government wasn't having to consider firebreakers etc.

So, reliant on goodwill in that respect (fortunately there's a lot of goodwill near here)

non mask wearers can infect people around them

So can mask wearers. Especially with Delta.

People really attribute way too much power to little bits of cloth.

but to a lesser extent

Hospitalisation is falling why a fire breaker? Is that a new thing

After 18 months I think people are moving on. It’s definitely changing here - London

Over last month

@herecomesthsun

but to a lesser extent

Where do you want to draw the line though?

There are some people here who still think nightclubs should be closed, we should all be WFH, 'distancing', and not indulging in 'non-essential' activities.

In any case, as I've said, the whole discussion is pointless at this stage. We've had a year of it and people have made up their minds. It's unlikely to change because of discussions like this.

Well all I know is what PP posted.

However, if we get flu + covid deaths could go up by quite a bit, and covid cases are already high.