Concerns over visiting UK

[burningfromtheinside]

I'm due to visit UK to see my family soon, haven't been there for two years due to the pandemic. I live in Italy, in the north, in one of the places hit by COVID at the very beginning in Feb 2020, however despite this, I still personally don't know one person who has contracted it, not even the Delta, no one pre and post vaccination. I have a large network of friends and work in large company ( although we're still WFH) Reading here and hearing from plenty of friends in the UK, so many people seem to have had it there, despite being double vaccinated. I don't know if it's because masks are still mandatory here indoors, or that COVID passports are mandatory for nearly everything, but I can't understand why it's so different. This is making me concerned about coming to UK, I feel like I'll catch it there no matter what. The whole family are Pfizer double vaccinated ( most of Italy is Pfizered, could it be this?!) I wonder if a large proportion of people are not vaccinated there or if because the vaccine program was much earlier in the UK, most people are no longer covered ( I'm in my 50s and was vaccinated in June) Anyway does anyone, like me not know a single person who has had COVID or it is just rife there? I should add I also don't know anyone who is not vaccinated here.

Thank you everyone, I feel much more informed. I will use my FFP2 and surgical masks in UK as I do here and of course practice good hygiene. It's all I can do. I can't afford to be ill in the UK due to work as well as other factors.

Obviously avoid half term dates.
I dont think it's az vs pfizer.
May also be ethnic minority as they are more likely to be unvaxxed and in cities. Our rates though mostly reflect such slow action on vaccinatine school age. It means there is a whole group unvaccinated with no masks. So higher rates in parents.

Maybe OP is worried about catching it and getting stuck here, I know that is my main worry about going abroad, it's not like when we go on holiday in our caravan and can just drive home

Very much depends where in uk are you going OP?
It's still law in Scotland to wear masks and we now have a covid pass for nightclubs/ large venues although no-one seems to be able to download it
80% over 16s are fully vaccinated

@niceberg

One of the long running and largest studies of covid rates, hospitalisations etc is the ZOE study from Kings College London. I find their weekly updates on YouTube really useful. There is a particular angle each week but alongside that they often compare the UK situation with other countries including EU countries. It's a good and reliable source of information.

Go to YouTube and search for'Tim Spector Zoe' and watch a couple.

Thank you so much for posting this! I didn't know about these videos and am finding them very helpful and informative.

I’m an Italian in London, right now having to travel between the countries because of Italian mum with cancer. The difference is stark- you’ll find very little masks in the Tube, or in shops. As a double vaccinated you’ll have a much lower chance of catching Covid, but in case you did: have you got a medical insurance? Check what the conditions are, and the small print. And get ready for the shock of seeing most people without masks and going around as in 2019. It’s both beautiful and terrifying.

OP my advice is prepare yourself for the jarring experience of a country rife with Covid and a majority of the public who seem to not care any more and take no precautions whatsoever. It’s madness.

If you've not even been to a supermarket yet, you are going to find international travel very stressful!

It is about 75% vaccination take up at the moment. Cases pretty mild but really quite active among the younger people. Many cases in schools. Most people acting like it never happened to be honest and gone back to all their normal habits. Mask wearing maybe 50% or less now indoor public places as not compulsory anymore.
If you're coming to see your family, know their behaviour is sensible, take all precautions and don't go out to eat or drink I would come, though.

I can’t imagine this level of anxiety post vaccination but I guess that is somewhat indicative of each country

I don't have any anxiety whatsoever when I'm at home. Because everyone wears their (actually effective) masks, and provides their test or vaccine passes upon entry to indoor spaces. Everywhere I know - cultural venues, schools, churches, shopping centers - has been given public funds to renovate ventilation systems, and life has returned to normal, with sensible precautions in place.

I do get anxiety when I visit a country with NO precautions.

That said, if the OP hasn't even gone to a supermarket in 20 months, international travel won't be easy.

I've been on 40 flights since the pandemic began, went to a concert last night with 2,500 people in the hall, have weekly choir practice without any distancing, and visit restaurants regularly. BUT where I live cases are low, and everyone has Covid passports. For the airport you need a Covid pass and there are strict mask requirements which everyone obeys. Flying is much less dangerous than spending a couple of days in London where everyone does as they please.

I can see London would feel very different if you do all that.

It still doesn’t bother me at all re masks etc

I did wear one at the Hayward Gallery recently as required, and a book shop - as did everyone else.

But then on a bus or cafe without everyone wearing one it doesn’t matter to me. On passes I don’t think about it but I’m double vaccinated anyway.

I’m fine with it as it is

"Could you post the list where UK is way behind, I thought it was all pretty similar as list posted above shows"

@RedRiverShore
@lannistunut

I don't think lannistunut is coming back to us on that!

@burningfromtheinside
If you aren't going into supermarkets, even with a mask, I think you will find the UK very difficult to manage.

Rightly or wrong, there are very few restrictions, nothing like Italy's. Our case numbers are high, but vaccines appear to be holding their own with serious illnesses/deaths.

Even if you keep yourself pretty much to yourself when you get here, there is the travel by plane, airports to navigate etc. etc.

lannistunut who apart from a small number of anti vaxxers do you suggest is trying to stop parents getting their DC vaccinated?

The UK committee recommended against vaccinating on balance of risks/benefits to DC aged 12-15, then the govt taking other factors in consideration decided to proceed. So parents have the choice.

The biggest problem in the UK is all the people who just couldn't care less and now consider we are back to 2019 normal. As a result they are not going to test or wear masks, and happily put others at risk. Even those pretend to do something, like wearing a mask, are often wearing it around their chin on public transport.

My social circle is quite small and I still know lots of people who've had covid. In a group chat with 8 others yesterday it turned out 2 are suffering from long covid several months down the line (many on MN would tell you it doesn't exist or is just anxiety, of course).

But as you are visiting family, it is probably worth the risk especially as the situation here is unlikely to change for the better even if you wait.

ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-19-tests-vs-cases-per-million-positivity-comparisons?tab=table.

There's so much to consider when comparing countries. One thing to think about is testing. What is the criteria in order to access a PCR test in Italy? Anecdotally I also only know people in the UK who have tested positive asymptomatically.

Looking at the data further it is showing that Italy has performed 19 tests per positive case and the UK has performed 34. That's is a lot more tests per case!

I live in a country boarding Italy. We also have ffp2 compulsory masks, covid passports, etc.. I also do not know of anyone who has had covid here yet.

we have just got back from 2 week visit to uk to visit family after 2 years and the difference is stark. Even at Heathrow airport loads of people from guests to staff just had mask under neck and not even on face. No one was pulled up on it. In many places people seemed to almost mock mask wearing. Very bizarre.

OP, there seems to be a myth that double vaccinated means you won't catch Covid easily or that it'll be just a mild cold.

I'm 48 and double vaccinated with AZ. Unsurprisingly, both my children have brought Covid back from schools at different points.

Two weeks ago, my child passed Covid on to me and I was laid up in bed for days. Two weeks on and I am still struggling with issues such as exhaustion, nose bleeds (never had one in my life before) dizziness and headaches. Prior to this, I was rarely ill.

You'll find that we dismiss Covid lots in this country.

Thanks, Although I haven't been in a big supermarket, I have been in smaller shops though and to restaurants. I have also flown several times to places in Europe with similar rules to Italy.

PCR tests are easy to get in Italy, you just book it at a lab and it takes around 24 hours, it costs less than UK. They've recently started to sell lateral flow tests in supermarkets yet, otherwise for a fast test, we can go to a pharmacy.

This is actually a stark difference I've noticed with UK friends and family, they test very often at home as I assume tests were/are easy get hold of and this makes very happy to hear! Here I'm the only person in the family here to have ever had a test done (PCR) and that was in March 2020 after being exposed, more of a precaution if anything.

I'll be staying in the southwest of England, in a large town.

I hope the people who've commented here and are currently ill with Covid feel much better soon.

Thank you. I live in a big city that's always been high risk.

Depending on where you are in the South West, you may be better 'protected'.

I have friends in Devon who haven't experienced the situation my children's schools have (one third of class here have had Covid).

Good luck. I know our exposure came from school each time.

costs less than UK.

PCR are free here? Or did you mean for travel.

Not according to World in Data. Roughly similar to Italy, France and Germany.
Now we have started vaccinating high school children, our numbers will go up further.

Not only that but the UK population is very pro-vaccines. We've only just started vaccinating the under 16s and there's been no compulsion to vaccinate like there has in Italy and France so I suspect we'll end up being one of the most vaccinated countries. We've got some of the highest vaccination rates for other vaccines, and we've currently got 82% of over 16s fully vaccinated, 90% partially with no requirement for vaccine passports etc. I've not been keeping up with all the data (I'm a scientist in Pharma) but I've not seen anything that suggests that any approved vaccine is significantly better than any other yet when it comes to prevention of disease.

I know of 2 or 3 people who have died of Covid in the UK (workmate's parents in their 80s) but I know similar numbers for Peru and Italy (distant family members). Otherwise I know lots of school kids who have had Covid and passed it on to the rest of the family. Adults all vaccinated and mild symptoms all round. My DDs and DH had Covid in June and if we hadn't been doing regular LFTs we'd never have realised. DHs aunt was over visiting MIL (both in their 80s and fully vaccinated but with different vaccines) from the US in August and they travelled all over the country by train and went to the theatre and museums and ate out etc etc and both were fine, no positive test results.

PCR tests and LFT are free here if you are symptomatic or a close contact. They're not free if you want them for travel. A lot of people in the U.K. are testing a lot without any symptoms which means we're identifying a lot of cases that might not have been picked up. It's one of the reasons our case numbers are so high, although obviously not the only reason!! I took my DD for a PCR last weekend because she might have been a close contact at school. When we got there, I got asked if I wanted one too because 'I may as well seen as I'm here'. I had absolutely no symptoms and hadn't really been anywhere but thought I may as well test which is what the staff at the centre said most people are doing when they brought their kids in. We've got to be picking up a lot of cases that way that might otherwise have been unreported!