Concerns over visiting UK

[burningfromtheinside]

I'm due to visit UK to see my family soon, haven't been there for two years due to the pandemic. I live in Italy, in the north, in one of the places hit by COVID at the very beginning in Feb 2020, however despite this, I still personally don't know one person who has contracted it, not even the Delta, no one pre and post vaccination. I have a large network of friends and work in large company ( although we're still WFH) Reading here and hearing from plenty of friends in the UK, so many people seem to have had it there, despite being double vaccinated. I don't know if it's because masks are still mandatory here indoors, or that COVID passports are mandatory for nearly everything, but I can't understand why it's so different. This is making me concerned about coming to UK, I feel like I'll catch it there no matter what. The whole family are Pfizer double vaccinated ( most of Italy is Pfizered, could it be this?!) I wonder if a large proportion of people are not vaccinated there or if because the vaccine program was much earlier in the UK, most people are no longer covered ( I'm in my 50s and was vaccinated in June) Anyway does anyone, like me not know a single person who has had COVID or it is just rife there? I should add I also don't know anyone who is not vaccinated here.

@JaninaDuszejko

And 21st in the world for covid deaths per million overall.

Which puts us behind Belgium, Italy and the US.

There aren’t any awards for being behind other western, rich countries, all of which could’ve done a better job at avoiding unnecessary deaths.

The fact that the UK is 21st instead of 18th doesn’t call for a celebration.

@sartorius

But we are doing a LOT of testing, particularly of people with no symptoms. Do other countries test the whole household for 1 person with symptoms? We are picking up loads of people who may not be considered a "case" in other countries as they have no symptoms.

Is that the case though?

My friend who’s just had a positive result is saying that her husband/kids don’t need to test or quarantine because he is double vaxxed and the children are under 18. So no additional testing going on there and her kids and husband are free to carry the virus into school and work

Where I am that would mean that the household has to quarantine for 10 days (though only test if symptoms appear), with the person with the positive result isolating in one room.

@londonmummy1966

I suggest that you stay in Italy and avoid our plague-infested incompetent inefficient country ...................

What a horrible post. Have you any consideration for how complex, stressful and emotive it is to live abroad and be restricted from travel to see friends and family during a pandemic?

There are multiple reasons for why some countries currently have higher death rates than others. It's still early to say which country will do 'best' overall, in fact how do we even judge which country is doing 'best', North Korea claims to have no cases so does that mean we should adopt their approach? And each country has to make its own choice of how to deal with it based on their population makeup and distribution, appetite for restrictions, wealth and impact on the economy and ability of the health service to cope.

But I do think it's worth pointing out to the OP that Britain does have a slightly lower number of deaths per million than the country she is travelling from.

My friend who’s just had a positive result is saying that her husband/kids don’t need to test or quarantine because he is double vaxxed and the children are under 18.

Whereas my friend, whose DC just got Covid, the whole family was tested, those that were positive isolated, those that weren't positive are doing daily LFTs.

@PrincessNutNuts

The UK is 16th in the world for most covid deaths in the last 7 days.

8th in the world for total number of covid deaths overall.

And 21st in the world for covid deaths per million overall.

Reported covid deaths @PrincessNutNuts - there are many countries for whom it is either not reported correctly or just not reported at all and being unknown Covid

Mark Twain/Disraeli has always had a point!

@GrandeTerrasse I am in Scotland and if someone is positive the whole household has to test, vaccinated or not.

@GrandeTerrasse - yes I do - frankly I am so sick of the UK bashing on this thread and thought that the OP was really goady. The only person I know who has died from COVID caught it in Milan and as I have a friend working in a hospital at the epicentre of the Italian crisis last year. I found the whole tone of the "in Italy we are so much better than you" really quite distasteful.

I don’t understand how this conversation has escalated in a contest about which country has been worse or better in front of the situation. OP was asking about the different situations.
I can confirm that in my experience right now it’s widely different. Central London is behaving almost as if Covid didn’t exist, with very few people observing social distancing and wearing masks. Masks in the tube, supermarkets or other places of gathering are recommended but not enforced.
Does people wear masks perfectly in Italy? No
Do they do it in London? Even less

Are infections high in London? Yes
Does it matter to Op and her/his risk profile? I would not know

(And I know plenty of Italians who caught Covid in Italy, including a relative who didn’t make it. And plenty of British who caught it in the U.K. but no death. Luckily. But personal anecdotes have no meaning. )

Where is your friend @JaninaDuszejko?

@sartorius ahh makes sense. Friend is in England.

@londonmummy1966 but - quite frankly - the uk has been a shambles, and honestly a bit of a laughing stock (for want a better word). The way the govt and media have handled it is shameful. Add in a generally slightly rebellious culture, and in line with several posters on this thread, and it feels like the public are reaching with less caution than other places.

No one said Italy was perfect. No one said any other country was perfect. But looking in on the UK it does feel quite a daunting prospect.

It’s my home, it’s where I grew up, it’s where my loved ones are. I love the place but there is definitely quite a contrast between where I am and the sense I’m getting from here on mn, the media, and real life people back in the uk.

*Reacting, not reaching

and honestly a bit of a laughing stock (for want a better word)

Why does U.K. make you laugh more than say what happened in Italy, NYC or India?

It’s just people having a tough time at the end of it. I don’t get why this is more ok.

@MarshaBradyo the poster said why, in her comment.

The way the govt and media have handled it is shameful. Add in a generally slightly rebellious culture, and in line with several posters on this thread, and it feels like the public are reaching with less caution than other places.

She didn't say she's laughing more at the UK either.

No one did it perfectly and I agree, this shouldn't be a competition. We can still point out the differences between countries and this is a thread discussing restrictions in the UK compared to Italy, after all. Or that's what it's turned into, anyway...

I've just been to Guernsey which has no precautions in place at all other than hand sanitiser in every shop, which we know is covid theatre.

Their covid rate is 79 out of a population of 63K and they currently have nobody in hospital with covid.

You did have to go through a few hurdles to get in, but no testing and no quarantine. I had to fill in a form, show I was vaccinated and say I'd do an LFT test on arrival (which they provided).

That is it. They are taking the view everyone who wants to be is now vaccinated and moving on. The requirement for vaccine passports for crowded indoor events is perhaps not so crazy but given the vaccine doesn't stop you getting it or transmitting it (though it clearly reduces the risk a lot) there isn't much point.

I do agree with mask-wearing and in my area most people still do.

I know people who've had covid but all before they were fully vaccinated.

Tbh I’m over the ‘U.K. is a laughing stock’ line and think people should reflect more on what they are saying.

Firstly Italy exceeded U.K. on some measures and secondly so what if we are at a different stage of restrictions? It’s not particularly laughable nor rebellious.

I have thought often of Gummer feeding his daughter that beef burger - government approach to covid seemed similar to the BSE lies

Hmm maybe. But have we had an epidemic of CJD? Not to my knowledge. Any one medically qualified who can advise?

And I wear washable cloth masks because they are more sustainable than disposable ones.

Maybe they're not as effective but to my knowledge, I've not had covid.

FFP2 masks can be reused safely, in a way which makes their use much more sustainable. The German government for example, employed actual scientists who explained to us how to safely reuse these type of masks. The ones that have kept cases low, ever since they were introduced.

I'm tired of people using 'the environment' as a justification. Are you childless, car-free, a vegan, never buy new clothes or single-use plastic, and don't put your heating on during winter?

Let's not use the environment as an excuse for everything. Many people haven't caught Covid, and it wasn't because of their cloth masks.

@JaninaDuszejko

And 21st in the world for covid deaths per million overall.

Which puts us behind Belgium, Italy and the US.

And 17 other countries.

Where is your friend @JaninaDuszejko?

NE England.

@lockdownmadnessdotcom

I have thought often of Gummer feeding his daughter that beef burger - government approach to covid seemed similar to the BSE lies

Hmm maybe. But have we had an epidemic of CJD? Not to my knowledge. Any one medically qualified who can advise?

Very strange take on the BSE mess.

The government were forced under global pressure to take steps... after telling us it was all fine and we should just carry on eating infected beef en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_BSE_outbreak

During the height of the crisis, as well as after cases began to decline, the UK government came under criticism for its response, and in particular for how slow it was to acknowledge the problem, to inform the public, and to take steps to deal with the outbreak. This is what is similar to the covid response - slow slow slow response.

And 17 other countries.

All of which are poorer, several with very corrupt governments. Many of the countries of South America has been horrendously affected (we have family there) but there's not been a lot in our news about what's happening in e.g. Peru which is No 1 for deaths per million (with 3x the deaths of the worst of the rich countries).

The U.K. has had the second highest number of covid cases in the world in the last 7 days.

www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

Again reported cases. The biggest problem here is you aren’t comparing like for like. The data gathered for this is never the true picture in any country

You can ascertain themes certainly and say we have been and still are badly hit but you cannot with any certainty state that we have the second highest because the data just isn’t comparable