Whats the big deal with mixing with unvaccinated people?

[ssd]

This is genuine, its nit a debate whether to get the vaccine or not. I personally got them as fast as i could because I'm scared of covid. And i accept others can't due to health reasons and others won't cos they choose not to.

But i keep reading here questions about mixing with unvaccinated people. How others determine this is a mystery to me.

Ive know vaccinated people still catch and spread covid. Having the vaccine doesn't stop that. It just hopefully stops you getting more ill if you catch it. So why the anxiety over mixing with unvaccinated people??
I genuinely dont get it. Has it been proved somewhere that unvaccinated people spread it more??? I've missed it if it has.

I think for a long time they just didn’t know if unvaccinated spread it more so it was a possibility but now it seems not so much. It’s a new disease so discoveries about how it behaves are becoming more apparent as time goes on.

I don’t get it either, even if unvaccinated people do spend it slightly more.

If people are anxious about mixing with others, unvaccinated or not, then they are free to stay at home.

It's a big deal in some people's minds but that's really where it ends.

If healthy vaccinated people tell me they wont mix with unvaccinated people- for a virus with a 99.6% survival rate (approx) even amongst the unvaccinated! - then they are neurotic so Id say nothing but think ohhhhhhhh not getting in to this.

It's such a small percentage of the adult population whom are not vaccinated honestly I think they get far too much of people's headspace.

Depends why they are not vaccinated, but if it's because they believe YouTube ranters over medical experts who wants to hang out with them anyway, it's been a great way for us to whittle out the, well boring ones.

People who can get vaccinated but choose not to are telling you something about themselves and their attitude to risk, their social conscience and their understanding of Covid. That makes people trust them less.

Going off some threads on here MN seem to think the unvaccinated are walking grim reapers!

@ManifestingJoy

If healthy vaccinated people tell me they wont mix with unvaccinated people- for a virus with a 99.6% survival rate (approx) even amongst the unvaccinated! - then they are neurotic so Id say nothing but think ohhhhhhhh not getting in to this.

Agree with this

I think its not been definitely proven as yet, but that evidence points towards vaccinated people being less likely to catch and transmit the virus. I think I've read they would also have a lower viral load.

My 2 brothers visited their step mum who became ill with covid the next day. My unvaccinated brother caught covid but my vaccinated brother didn't and kept testing himself but remained negative.

People seem to forget that most kids haven’t been vaccinated.

It would be interesting to see how those who’ve already had covid are impacting on the figures.
Vaccinated people are still spreading it, getting it, being hospitalised with it and dying with it. It gives some protection but it seems prior infection gives more.

The way I see it is that I’ve had 3 doses of Pfizer. I pose a bigger risk to anyone who is unvaccinated than they do to me.

If they’re happy with that and decide to go out and about, in shops, restaurants, concerts, sporting events etc then that’s up to them, in exactly the same way that I can decide if I want to go or not.

It’s tough for those who are unable to have the jab for whatever reason though.

Pretty obvious if you are a person with risk factors. You just want to reduce the risk. I believe there is some evidence that unvaccinated are more likely to be infected:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/amp/

Vaccination is not the ONLY thing I look at when I decide whether I’m going to risk it. I also look at likely exposure - does person wfh, take public transport? Have they had proven covid before? If so can I mitigate things by asking for LFT? Or meeting outside?

Pretty rational I think. PS - my relatives all understand my reasoning and are fine.

@DayKay

It would be interesting to see how those who’ve already had covid are impacting on the figures. Vaccinated people are still spreading it, getting it, being hospitalised with it and dying with it. It gives some protection but it seems prior infection gives more.

Look up base rate fallacy. They cover this well on More or Less.

Vaccines aren’t perfect. When the majority of people are vaccinated (as they are here), the small proportion of people who get very ill despite being vaccinated can look like a large number. You need to compare the percentage of cases/deaths in the vaccinated group vs the unvaccinated group.

Seatbelts is a helpful analogy. If most are wearing seatbelts, the people who die in car crashes are most likely to have been wearing one. That doesn’t mean that wearing a seatbelt has no effect on your risk of dying.

To use an example based on latest research (linked below)
You go to a party with 500 others.
If they were all vaccinated, the odds are that there would be 2 of 500 people who are contagious. Even assuming those 2 people made really close contact with all the other guests, there's only a 3.8% chance they pass it on at all, so call it maybe 20 of the double vaxxed guests get sick (and mostly mildly ill, because they're vaccinated. Even with Delta, the odds are that 0 or 1 would end up in hospital).

OR.. you go to a party with 500 unvaccinated people. Chances are that 7 of them have active covid. So that makes your risk higher already. Then for the other attendees, they have a 7.4% chance of catching it through close contact. If even one attendee has truly close contact with all the other guests, then that would mean SIXTY people getting sick. Far more if all 7 had close contact. Of those 60-100+ people not only will they spread it far further, they are 29 times more likely to end up in hospital. That probably 10 or more people very unwell and also using scarce NHS resources.

So the answer is

1. More risk to you because they're more likely to be ill
2. If you have it and are asymptomatic due to luck or your vaccination, you're likely to be doing them and their community and the NHS massive disservice by making them ill
3. People who don't want to do the right thing for the community, or who trust random websites over actual evidence, aren't the kind of people I want to hang around

www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/amp/

They might start shedding their stupidity.

It's not something I would ask anyone as I'm not bothered. On social media and I include MN in this, it seems to me a thing but that is because people who aren't bothered wouldn't be fussing about it anyway

I think these are arguments and worries that exist on Mumsnet only. When I step into my local (crowded, not much mask wearing, poor ventilation) supermarket, I'm not wondering who is vaxxed and who isn't. Not that I am blasé about Covid - I mask and try and keep some distance - but I don't walk around trying to Covid-risk-analyse everyone I see (not that I could anyway since most people don't wear their vaxx status on their foreheads!).

@DressedUpAtAnIvy

People who can get vaccinated but choose not to are telling you something about themselves and their attitude to risk, their social conscience and their understanding of Covid. That makes people trust them less.

This

It has been proved that vaccinated people are 3 times LESS likely to even test positive in the first place.
It has been proved that vaccinated people are infectious for a shorter period of time.

Therefore, unvaccinated people are more likely to test positive and more likely to be infectious for longer.

These are proven scientific facts.

If I could find a plumber who said they were doubled vaccinated I would certainly be more willing to have them come inside my house than an unvaccinated plumber. Why don't people advertise their vaccinated status. It is as useful as a qualification in my opinion.

@DressedUpAtAnIvy

People who can get vaccinated but choose not to are telling you something about themselves and their attitude to risk, their social conscience and their understanding of Covid. That makes people trust them less.

You are choosing one data point in a person's overall attitude to risk. The same unvaxxed person may wear a seatbelt, always drive at the speed limit, never smoke or abuse alcohol, never drive like maniac, etc. Judging a person's risk profile based on a single issue is pointless (but it helps the person who is judging to feel so superior and righteous, no doubt).

By comparison, someone who has been double vaxxed may also choose, on a daily basis, to risk people's lives by talking on their phone while driving; driving like a maniac and/or well above the speed limit, and eat a fatty diet with no exercise which puts the NHS at strain for years in the future.

@user142536

It has been proved that vaccinated people are 3 times LESS likely to even test positive in the first place. It has been proved that vaccinated people are infectious for a shorter period of time.

Therefore, unvaccinated people are more likely to test positive and more likely to be infectious for longer.

These are proven scientific facts.

If I could find a plumber who said they were doubled vaccinated I would certainly be more willing to have them come inside my house than an unvaccinated plumber. Why don't people advertise their vaccinated status. It is as useful as a qualification in my opinion.

Good luck getting that toilet fixed if you insist on seeing someone's personal health information before they are allowed to come into your house - and by the way, requesting that information is, you know, illegal....

and by the way, requesting that information is, you know, illegal....

Is it? This is news to me.

It comes directly from the government if you are one of the many people who were shielding.

This was in an email from the department of health to me this week as one of those who was asked to shield.