No Vaccine Passports

[NotSonicTheHedgehog]

Government have just U turned confirmed vaccine passports won’t be needed for large scale events in England.

Under the scheme, people would have been required to show proof - whether of double vaccination, a negative Covid test or finishing self-isolating after a positive PCR test - in order to gain entry to clubs and other crowded events

@Mycatcontrolsmymovements

It wasn't a vaccine passport. It was the requirement to have a vaccine OR a negative test OR just had covid so natural immunity

What? That's what it is now. They wanted to bring in a passport to only allow vaccinated people into venues. Thanks God they are not.

If you want to stop infections then test everyone

No, we need to move away from testing. If everyone is vaccinated, passing on infection is reduced, if everyone is vaccinated, they also have less chance of catching it, thereby reducing the risk even more. It obviously also reduces the risk of becoming seriously ill, even if you do catch it. Eventually testing becomes meaningless, as only those with no vaccination, or less immunity are at risk, just like any other disease.

I think they want to end free testing, so they can't introduce a mandatory requirement for testing anywhere

If you read the article on the BBC, it was never a vaccine only passport

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58535258

Well you know, if Sajid didn't like the idea, probably best to trust Sajid --- said no one, ever

@Mycatcontrolsmymovements

If you read the article on the BBC, it was never a vaccine only passport

Yes, I saw this. Very strange as I had definitely read a bbc and Telegraph article stating the opposite.... God, maybe I dreamt it? All this time I've been angry about something I'd made up 😂 But I'd swear I'd read about it!

I had thought that too. But the BBC article is basically like, nope, all requirements are going...

I am very pleased to hear this

I think maybe we've been played here. Talk about "vaccine passports" which were never actually that. Wait for people to get angry about that and then go, ok, we will remove everything and people won't notice because they thought it was vaccine only passports?

Vaccine passports might have been the way to keep pubs and large events functioning over winter. I'm suspicious of the timeing of this 'u-turn'. There's been reports over the last few days about proposals for winter measures, the school vs pub debate has resurfaced but simultaneously laws that allow school closures are set to be scrapped. Does this make pub closures and restrictions on large events more likely now?

I think it is essentially a PR move.

The Government appears to give us 'freedom', and puts total responsibility onto nightclubs etc as to whether they then put in some restrictions based on their risk assessment.

Thus the venues themselves can be 'the bad guys' for not giving the 'freedom' that the government has so generously given us ... and then 'the fall guys' when there are outbreaks, because 'they didn't put any measures in to keep you, the punters, safe - how COULD they???'

See schools for another example.... 'Oh, all schools are fully open, we're so great'; 'Oh, some are closed because all the teachers are infected and are at home, that's their fault for not being the safe places that WE said they were, they must have done things wrong'.

Good

Vaccine passports aren’t really worth the hassle because there is only 11% of the 16+ population who are unvaccinated. Given those aren’t uniformly spread across the country the odds are that someone is vaccinated rather than isn’t. They could have provided some small benefit earlier on in the rollout.

Things could change further down the line but that would have to be down to a vaccine-escaping variant, reduction in vaccine efficacy or an overwhelming tide of cases that threatens health care provision at which point a vaccine passport would make no difference.

I agree it’s a very soft ‘win’ that means very little overall.

I think we will see the end to free lateral flow tests soon. It must be costing them, with large scale events requiring negative tests.

I am very happy they are not introducing vaccine only passports as it is devisive but that BBC article is something completely different.

The conspiracy theorists must be very disappointed.

I think we will see the end to free lateral flow tests soon. It must be costing them, with large scale events requiring negative tests

I’ve no idea whether that’s true or not but I think that wouldn’t be a good call right now (and there are still government campaigns encouraging twice weekly testing).

Covid cases are still impacting hospitals in that there continue to be enough people attending hospital to require a significant proportion of resource. My local hospital currently has 24 covid inpatients and 3 on ventilators. That’s basically two wards required for one disease.

The nature of covid being so similar to many other illnesses in lots of cases means there’s little way to tell without a test. If the vaccines and unvaccinated continue to get ill at the current rate there’s still a need to isolate the infected so people need to be able to identify.

I don’t think testing as it currently is should be reviewed until spring 2022 at the earliest but who knows what logic this government is working on.

Good.

BigWoollyJumpers DH is currently in Italy and it's not being enforced with any great enthusiasm.

LFTs twice weekly for secondary kids is being reviewed at the end of September.

@cantkeepawayforever

I think it is essentially a PR move.

The Government appears to give us 'freedom', and puts total responsibility onto nightclubs etc as to whether they then put in some restrictions based on their risk assessment.

Thus the venues themselves can be 'the bad guys' for not giving the 'freedom' that the government has so generously given us ... and then 'the fall guys' when there are outbreaks, because 'they didn't put any measures in to keep you, the punters, safe - how COULD they???'

See schools for another example.... 'Oh, all schools are fully open, we're so great'; 'Oh, some are closed because all the teachers are infected and are at home, that's their fault for not being the safe places that WE said they were, they must have done things wrong'.

Yes I was going to say the same. They are dumping any responsibility onto the business owners who will have to consider the safety of their staff.

Our government is continuing with their strategy of let the situation reach crisis point and then act which as we know means a more difficult time in the long run.

I think you'll find the "conspiracy theorists" are mightily relieved actually.

Especially the ones who have continually said vaccine passports without testing were lip service to the issue.

And the way it was being reported appeared to take testing out of the picture - but we do live in an age of revisionist history occurring in real time.......

It is worth pointing out that all employers still have a statutory Health and safety duty, which precedes any Covid guidance:

"It is an employer's duty to protect the health, safety and welfare of their employees and other people who might be affected by their business. Employers must do whatever is reasonably practicable to achieve this.

This means making sure that workers and others are protected from anything that may cause harm, effectively controlling any risks to injury or health that could arise in the workplace.

Employers have duties under health and safety law to assess risks in the workplace."

That means that, regardless of the 'freedoms' the Government chooses to say they are giving venues, the legal duty that the venues have to keep their employees and others safe from risks to health in that venue means that those that act responsibly are likely to continue with some form of Covid risk mitigation.

Another one very relieved here although not quite trusting the news as there have been so very many u-turns already.