Parental Consent for Vaccine

[naughty40me]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-12-to-15-year-olds-to-get-final-say-over-covid-jab-if-disagreement-with-parent-occurs-12401914

Not sure if link worked, never done it before.

Sajid Javid saying that parental consent for the vaccine won't be needed if the child decides to take it.

I am livid at this!

I have a 2DC 12 and 14. I really do not want them to have the vaccine.

I am going to have to sit and have a proper discussion with them.
Up to now, when it has been mentioned all my kids say is "but if we don't have the vaccine we won't be able to go to the cinema"...

I'm not anti vax. I've been double jabbed myself being over 40 with long term conditions and in the vulnerable category.

However, as the JCVI says, the benefit to healthy children in this age range is marginal.
I am worried about side effects, both short and long term.

I think vaccines should be a choice.
Those who want their children vaccinated should have that choice.
But those of us who don't should also have a choice.

I don't think my dc are capable of making a fully informed decision. They are children fgs.
They are having their heads filled with crap, making them watch Newsround every day in school for example.

I feel so strongly about this.
I honestly think they will end up making it a condition of school entry.

It's so wrong.

I know not many on here will agree but I for one am not happy about this at all.

People keep spewing false information that vaccination doesn't make difference although the data suggests otherwise.

But why are people so against other people's children getting vaccinated, I wonder. It's a choice. Just opt out for your own children. If it makes sense or not is totally up to us, about our own children.

I understand that for schools it may mean lower attendance for kids as a whole. But for an individual child who gets covid, they’ll miss a couple of weeks of school, most likely be fine and not get it again. For me, that doesn’t justify vaccinating healthy children.

What does it matter if children become infected naturally olly they are unlikely to become seriously ill. Of course vulnerable children should have a vaccine as swiftly as possible, but I don't know why you would inject a healthy child with a vaccine we know very little about. The vaccine does not have very much data at all published, and could have side effects both immediately and in the long term that are far worse than a mild case of covid!

Surely you can see that some parents perceive the vaccine to be a risk at the moment? Until the rest of the data is published. There are known harms and side effects from this vaccine, and there could be a lot unknown harms that we are not aware of just yet. Of course most parents are careful when it comes to risk to their children. It is only natural to be cautious when it comes to the health of our children.

Every parent should make a choice based on the individual health needs/benefits and risks to their own child. It isn't for the state to decide, or anyone else. We are responsible for our children, and we are best placed to make a decision for them about the vaccine.

New (preprint) study showing a higher risk for 12-15 boys - 162.2 per million. Higher than their hospitalisation risk from covid.

“Rates per million following dose 2 among males were 162.2 (ages 12-15) and 94.0 (ages 16-17); among females, rates were 13.0 and 13.4 per million, respectively. For boys 12-15 without medical comorbidities receiving their second mRNA vaccination dose, the rate of CAE is 3.7-6.1 times higher than their 120-day COVID-19 hospitalization risk as of August 21, 2021 (7-day hospitalizations 1.5/100k population) and 2.6-4.3-fold higher at times of high weekly hospitalization risk (2.1/100k), such as during January 2021.”

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1

Thanks bumble that is very interesting stats. Thanks for posting.

I think @bumbleymummy that is an elephant in the room because looking at that it seems that it is beneficial for girls (Covid risk outweighs vaccine) but it isnt for boys.

But that would mean making a decision based on biological sex which is not one I think there is appetite for

@SoManyPaws

I understand that for schools it may mean lower attendance for kids as a whole. But for an individual child who gets covid, they’ll miss a couple of weeks of school, most likely be fine and not get it again. For me, that doesn’t justify vaccinating healthy children.

So just opt out for your children.

I'm not worried about couple of weeks of missed school, I'm worried about the damage the covid can do to my dc, even if it was a mild case. Evidence suggest nerve damage for even mild cases, and there are many cases of long term post infection effects. If you rather want your dc to get natural immunity, fine. But I don't.

We can't assume there is zero risk to girls either quartz as the long range data (as far as it is possible with such a new vaccine) is not due for another six months. Additionally to be entirely confident that the vaccine is not harmful we would need much longer to assess outcomes.

As a parent of boys the vaccine looks like a bad bet, as a parent of girls one might also feel cautious until all the facts are known. Hence the JCVI reluctance to give a recommendation.

illuyankas It is your choice of course, you must do whatever is right for your children. We know scores of children that have tested positive, not a single one has had any problems, all have recovered fully as the stats show the actual risk of serious illness in children is extremely low.
Take a look at the latest stats, you might find it reassuring.

zenthoughtsonlythanks if you think the serious consequences for children is lower for getting covid than vaccine, then that's totally fine. As a nurse up thread said it's unlikely that the parental decision would be overturned, why do you nee to keep on going? And not single one had any problem is hardly true, if you have been reading the studies published. All of them have had some degree of damage, even though it varies.
You can opt out for your own children.
For me, odds are different. I'd rather my dc not get the virus in the first place.

illuyankas

My oldest will decide for himself. We probably will refuse for our youngest as she’s happy for us to make the decision if needed. People need to keep perspective and keep anxiety under control.

the vaccine doesn't even prevent transmission.
In our house 3 of us double jabbed and 1 single jabbed due 2nd the day DH got pinged for covid, due to his work circumstance took a pcr and came back positive. Very mild symptoms ie sneezing and slightly sore throat form a few days earlier when dh and i had been away for weekend. None of us other 3 got any symptoms and we all tested negative on PCR that was despite no isolation for the first 4 days

Why are you even angry to show the face?
Like I said, I couldn't careless for other people's children, I only care about my dc.
What you decide for your own children doesn't bother me at all.
I just wish it applied for us too, that people stop saying it doesn't make sense what we do, or in some cases, call us deluded etc.

I really don't judge you for what you do. Tbh, I couldn't careless. Do whatever, but just leave us parents who make different choice alone too.

@bruffin

the vaccine doesn't even prevent transmission. In our house 3 of us double jabbed and 1 single jabbed due 2nd the day DH got pinged for covid, due to his work circumstance took a pcr and came back positive. Very mild symptoms ie sneezing and slightly sore throat form a few days earlier when dh and i had been away for weekend. None of us other 3 got any symptoms and we all tested negative on PCR that was despite no isolation for the first 4 days

Just to clarify DH 60 is double jabbed Me 59 double jabbed DS 26 single jabbed at the time , but double jabbed now DD 23 double jabbed working in NHS setting, may have had covid very early on before lockdown when she was in on placement in a Belgian hospital

I read it yesterday that doubled jabbed people getting infected is 1 in 5000 chance in certain state in US. It even get lower if the person takes precautions, to 1 in 10000, in mostly vaccinate state.

It clearly stated that the chance do increase/decrease depend on the person's actions. If you take care to reduce transmission, the odds decrease. If you act like vaccination is bullet proof vest, the chance will increases. Doesn't that make sense?

And the school is breeding ground for virus, no mitigation, no sd. Even the teacher is double vaxxed, they don't have odds in their favour, so is the children who wears masks and try to sd to minimise the risk for themselves.

illuyankas

No idea what your issue is with me. Chill.

I have no issue with you, tbh, it didn't even register to me in the first place to respond to you if you didn't responded direct to me by bolding my UN. WTF?
No logical responce to my responce to you so act like I'm the unreasonable one taking issue with you? You really disappoint me. If you ask me for responce, at least reply with dignity.

@SoManyPaws
Ok, sorry, I did quote your comment in the first place. So it's my bad. I had no issue with you at all, like I said, I only care for my dc.

So I am sorry, you are not wrong to respond to me the way you did, I was the one took your general comment personally in the first place.

ill I think it is likely our children (and us) will get covid many times over, it is endemic. So we will have to learn to live with the virus, and be glad our children will be fine in the most part.

If you feel vaccines will make a difference to your children, then encourage them to have one. You know your child's health better than anyone else.

I think it is bloody fantastic that we have the choice, thanks to those that developed the vaccine.

Well yes it is fantastic @zenthoughtsonlythanks and it definitely should be a choice, indeed I think it should be rolled out and therefore the choice be given without any judgment on either side as to the choice made.

This whole thread though is about whose choice it should be. And where the line should be which is a far more complicated subject. And not one I think that has the same answer for a 12 year old (who I dont actually think is even traditionally seen as Gillick Competent) and a 15 year old

@zenthoughtsonlythanks

I think it is bloody fantastic that we have the choice, thanks to those that developed the vaccine.

It's not a choice, not yet. That's why I am interested in this kind of thread anyway. Or did I missed the announcement that finally the vaccination for 12+ is available?

If you feel vaccines will make a difference to your children, then encourage them to have one. You know your child's health better than anyone else.

I agree, and I think that most parents also take into account their child's education and mental health when considering whether to vaccinate.

But whilst most people feel like this, unfortunately on MN there are some quite vocal posters who don't believe that vaccination should be an option for anyone's 12+ child. I don't know why that is. We hear arguments about consent being ignored, peer pressure being applied, kids who've already had covid not needing vaccines. Well teachers and immunisation nurses have come on threads to reassure that that will not happen, if you feel strongly that natural immunity is fine for your child, pay for an antibody test and then refuse consent. But don't try to argue that parents wanting the vaccine for their child or teenagers wanting protection for themselves shouldn't have that option or imply that they are playing Russian roulette with their child's health if they choose to vaccinate. (Not aimed at anyone here in particular.)

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees perhaps because it’s unusual for a vaccine to be offered to school children more for logistic reasons (reducing disruption - that is actually caused by current isolation/testing policies) rather than health benefits? We don’t usually give vaccines with such a narrow health/risk benefit to our children.

@ilyunkas

"10:42illuyankas

Why are you even angry to show the hmm face?
Like I said, I couldn't careless for other people's children, I only care about my dc.
What you decide for your own children doesn't bother me at all.
I just wish it applied for us too, that people stop saying it doesn't make sense what we do, or in some cases, call us deluded etc.

I really don't judge you for what you do. Tbh, I couldn't careless. Do whatever, but just leave us parents who make different choice alone too"

So, on other threads, people who say they don't care about anyone elses children get roasted. Or posters that don't want mitigations etc, get accused of not giving a shit about CEV children, but you openly come on here and say you couldn't care less about other peoples children??! Honestly, do me a favour and do one. Take your selfish attitude and shove it somewhere I can't repeat.