BMJ: Teachers not at greater risk of hosp'n, and lower risk of severe disease, than general population

[Kokeshi123]

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2060?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=hootsuite&utm_content=sme&utm_campaign=usage

Unlike previous studies, this one actually looked at periods when schools were open and compared like-with-like for those periods.

Compared with adults of working age who are otherwise similar, teachers and their household members were not found to be at increased risk of hospital admission with covid-19 and were found to be at lower risk of severe covid-19. These findings should reassure those who are engaged in face-to-face teaching.

This should not be taken to mean that we should do schooling with no mitigations whatsoever--I'd be in favor of doing indoor masks for kids and teachers till the winter is over if it was up to me, and ventilation is always a good thing anyway. However, at least this should provide some reassurance for teachers and families. And in my opinion, this kind of thing should settle the argument on having any further school closures; mitigations are one thing, but schools absolutely must remain open IMO.

It's nice to see a balanced article and not the heresay teachers are dropping dead everywhere rhetoric that was around last year. Yes, there's a risk to teachers- no denying that, but it's no higher than any other sector and given their close proximity to many different people (kids) that's hopefully quite reassuring for them.

It's nice to see a balanced article and not the heresay teachers are dropping dead everywhere rhetoric that was around last year

Never happened.

This is certainly reassuring but I appreciate there is still risk to CEV teachers, particularly if they’re immune compromised or immune suppressed.

@Mickarooni

This is certainly reassuring but I appreciate there is still risk to CEV teachers, particularly if they’re immune compromised or immune suppressed.

But that goes for lots of diseases surely? How many immune compromised or suppressed teachers are there? Does anyone know.. and they will all be vaccinated now surely?

I wonder if that will change now though- up until now schools have been open whilst the country still had restrictions / distancing / masks and contacts of cases isolated, bubbles closed etc etc. Schools are now open with no restrictions, no isolation and no vaccinated children. A child comes to school if someone they live with tests positive, a class stays open if someone in it is positive. I am not saying that I think these decisions are wrong, but I do wonder if the change in rules alongside the lack of child vaccination will mean the risk is higher now than before, especially when compared to other workers who work mainly with adults, many of whom will be vaccinated.

I think (and I’m happy to be corrected) that the paper attributed the following factors to this:

• teachers are generally fit and despite what some people think, it is a physically as well as mentally demanding job
• most of us are women
• most are young (not me, been teaching 21 years)
• educated professionals make ‘wiser’ choices in regards to their own health and their communities ie vaccines, mitigation measures

@flightofthewilderbeast

I wonder if that will change now though- up until now schools have been open whilst the country still had restrictions / distancing / masks and contacts of cases isolated, bubbles closed etc etc. Schools are now open with no restrictions, no isolation and no vaccinated children. A child comes to school if someone they live with tests positive, a class stays open if someone in it is positive. I am not saying that I think these decisions are wrong, but I do wonder if the change in rules alongside the lack of child vaccination will mean the risk is higher now than before, especially when compared to other workers who work mainly with adults, many of whom will be vaccinated.

Interesting point.

As a teacher I am now in the unique position of working with the unvaccinated population. I hope data will be collected on this exposure now.

Think this misses the point most teachers have been trying to get across. We are more likely to catch COVID as there are no measures now and the population is mixing more outside school. If we catch it, even with a mild case (& what medics call mild doesn't feel that way !) then we can't work. Too many of us sick at same time and school can't function and will close. That's why we want some measures, yes to protect vulnerable colleagues and students but also so we can stay open. We need healthy upright teachers for that to happen.
This week I've been in a hall with no windows or doors open with over 100 people sitting shoulder to shoulder in rows facing each other. No masks. Any other job been doing that this week ?
I'm resigned to it now. 🤞🤞🤞 is our only protection and no one carers much.

But what if schools being open results on wider transmission throughout society?

I think we know we are at no greater risk of hospitalisation due to, on the whole, being quite young. You don’t find many teachers age 50+, most where I work are 25-45. However, are we at greater risk of catching it? Just because you aren’t hospitalised doesn’t mean it’s just a mild cold. It can still mean 2-3 weeks laid up in bed and who knows the long term effects - I know 2 people personally who have both been medically diagnosed with long covid. That’s still a horrible position to be put in

It's not just the hospitalisations though. It's the increased risk of infection and long covid. Anecdotally teachers are the only people I know with long covid.

@Mickarooni

This is certainly reassuring but I appreciate there is still risk to CEV teachers, particularly if they’re immune compromised or immune suppressed.

If their health really is so fragile (and I’m not at all saying that there aren’t any teachers in fragile health) then every virus is a risk. Flu, common cold, chicken pox, etc. They manage to cope being surrounded by kids with all manner of bugs and viruses at any other time.

I am now in the unique position of working with the unvaccinated population

children....you mean children.....they should not be referred to as the fucking 'unvaccinated population' they are people

and it is not unique, lots of people work with children not just teachers

We've gone from bubbles, masks and isolation to full school assembles and complete mixing this week and no masks. So I was sat in a hall this week with over 350 children and staff. No distancing, no masks just windows open. Some of those 350 can have multiple household members with Covid that day. It's not worry about being hospitalised for me but generally catching it and being quite unwell for a few weeks with 4 children of my own. I know we need to get on with life now but a few mitigations like the rest of the population have would be nice.

I know the flu can do this too, but we are not in a flu pandemic.

and it is not unique, lots of people work with children not just teachers

For 6+ hours per day with no mitigation? Who? (I include TAs as ‘teachers’ btw)

in my opinion, this kind of thing should settle the argument on having any further school closures; mitigations are one thing, but schools absolutely must remain open IMO.

Staff safety had never been a consideration in whether schools were shut. They were shut because:

1. So many schools were shutting due to staff absence that the system was collapsing and...

1. Death rates were so high that it was necessary as a public health measure.

Some schools will shut this winter because they just won't have staff. It's an inevitable consequence of the lack of mitigation and lack of resources.

But this was with precautions in place.

All bets are off now, surely.

I'm a teacher, and I never ever want to go through a school lockdown again. I'm reasonably confident about my own risk profile, I'm healthy and vaccinated. But, I do work in a school where the management have been understanding of staff who are CEV or latter stages of pregnancy for example, and they have allowed them to work from home. However, I know some school leaders are absolute arseholes and couldn't give a fig about their staff, so other vulnerable teachers aren't so lucky and have been required to be in school. I am really really worried about the disruption this term however, I'm predicting a school closure at some point when it spreads and a significant proportion of staff test positive. Even with vaccination, Covid is still transmitted (a number of staff tested positive at the end of last term, despite long being double vaccinated), so staff will still test positive. Who knows how much disruption that will actually cause, but it could be significant. And absolutely nothing has been done to reduce the likelihood of that, which is extreme negligence. I desperately want my students to have a more normal year, but it seems like the government aren't too fussed about that.

And in my opinion, this kind of thing should settle the argument on having any further school closures; mitigations are one thing, but schools absolutely must remain open IMO.

But school closures have never been to protect the health of staff; and if multiple teachers are ill, then individual schools will absolutely not remain open OP. I'm really not sure what your point is here?

@echt

It's nice to see a balanced article and not the heresay teachers are dropping dead everywhere rhetoric that was around last year

Never happened.

Yeah I was wondering if I'd missed this thread considering it would have been quite prominent in active convos 🤦🏼‍♀️

Still ignores the things teachers have actually been saying.

And that is covid causes teacher absence (regardless of how ill they are) and student absence of 10 days isolation and that affects education.

I'm waiting for people to wake up and see the bigger picture of this as they had it shoved in front of their faces for past 18 months

Ps - I'm not a teacher

I want schools to remain open (I’m a teacher) but I can’t help but feel rather annoyed by this thread when we’re exposing ourselves everyday to contact with hundreds of potentially infectious people, ever enthusiastic and smiley for the pupils, yet I have several colleagues who’ve been ill with covid. Some very. On the other side I know lots of friends and family still able to work from home, cautious about going into an office.
Yes we all want our kids in school but the implication that school staff should be in some way comforted by this article is off.

This should not be taken to mean that we should do schooling with no mitigations whatsoever

Well, that is unfortunately the plan, so it seems that

this should provide some reassurance for teachers and families

just isn’t the case.

We should be wearing masks inside, vaccinating any 12-15 who wants to be done, not pushing whole school assemblies, not sending household members of positive cases into school, but we aren’t doing any of those things. The government has instead decided to throw money at extra attendance officers for schools and is ‘rolling out’ co2 monitors. I don’t need a co2 monitor to tell me that my classroom is poorly ventilated-I want to be able to do something about it. I don’t need guidance telling me that I should only open windows if there’s an outbreak in my class and IF nobody’s thermal comfort is compromised!

No, I’m not feeling reassured.

And I personally know 2 teachers who are dead. From Covid. Fit, healthy people who had kids and lives. Both in early 40s who caught it at school - they didn't go anywhere else. Teaching has the 3rd highest death rate from Covid in this country (after health workers and bus drivers).
So vaccines will now help, but they won't prevent staff being off sick.
Mitigation = schools stay open
No mitigation = schools will be disrupted snd potentially close

And in my opinion, this kind of thing should settle the argument on having any further school closures;

Why? Teacher safety or otherwise had fuck all to do with previous school closures so why do you suppose the govt would start caring about it now?

School closures happened in Jan because infection rates in children (not teachers) was so high that they couldn’t have a lockdown that would effectively reduce the spiralling hospitalisation and death rate without closing them (they tried that in lockdown 2).

Let’s all hope the forthcoming spiralling infection rate in children doesn’t have too much of an impact on those around them this time.