BMJ: Teachers not at greater risk of hosp'n, and lower risk of severe disease, than general population

[Kokeshi123]

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2060?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=hootsuite&utm_content=sme&utm_campaign=usage

Unlike previous studies, this one actually looked at periods when schools were open and compared like-with-like for those periods.

Compared with adults of working age who are otherwise similar, teachers and their household members were not found to be at increased risk of hospital admission with covid-19 and were found to be at lower risk of severe covid-19. These findings should reassure those who are engaged in face-to-face teaching.

This should not be taken to mean that we should do schooling with no mitigations whatsoever--I'd be in favor of doing indoor masks for kids and teachers till the winter is over if it was up to me, and ventilation is always a good thing anyway. However, at least this should provide some reassurance for teachers and families. And in my opinion, this kind of thing should settle the argument on having any further school closures; mitigations are one thing, but schools absolutely must remain open IMO.

@noblegiraffe

Oh there were plenty of teachers on here, plenty, who described young children using the most awful language you can imagine.

I remember parents describing their own kids as having poor hygiene. Are you going to attack those parents?

Is calling kids 'the unvaccinated population' an example of the 'most awful language you can imagine' btw, because your response to that makes your level of assessment of offensive language to describe children a bit dubious.

Of course not. Don’t be ridiculous. There has been a general trend on here during the past 18 months where some primary school teachers have used really horrible language to describe of the hygiene of 5, 6, 7 year olds and using it as a justification for not going into school for face to face teaching. I would be very surprised if these posters had children themselves, and if they do they must be regretting that decision given their views. It’s just really depressing to think that some children have people like this as their ‘teachers’.

And no I’m not anti teachers. My brother is a teacher, and nearly all the teachers I’ve encountered in real life have been fantastic during the last 18 months.

I would be very surprised if these posters had children themselves

Your assumption is that teachers posting on a parenting forum don't have children?

Given that, as I said, plenty of parents on here have described their children as having dubious hygiene, why would you suppose that someone describing children as having dubious hygiene is automatically a non-parent?

really horrible language

You gave the example of snotty nosed, along with 'unvaccinated population'. Is this what you define as 'really horrible language'?

@noblegiraffe ‘Vectors of infection’ which is used over and over on here by teachers is horrible terminology. Say in theory if black people were more likely to transmit Covid because of some biological reason and posters came on here calling them ‘vectors of infection’, do you think they might get their posts deleted or even banned if they persisted with it?

If your answer is no, then why is it acceptable to talk about children like this?

I’m not referring to ‘the unvaccinated population’, they were another poster’s words not mine. Although it’s not a nice way of talking about children since they don’t have a choice or rather their parents don’t have a choice about whether they are vaccinated, do they? It feels like a blame game. It’s the general description of young children’s normal behaviour as if it were abhorrent that I find so offensive and depressing being a mother of a young child myself.

I do wonder why when it’s so evident that some posters here loathe young children (endless descriptions from so called ‘teachers’ describing children as snot nosed and revolting), they decided to have career working with them.

Complete and utter bullshit. I bet you can’t even find one.

Seriously?

Without outing myself, I've been back to school for a while. There's many many cases amongst staff and children. Life in school continues to be very tough.

I've spent the whole morning today talking to upset and worried staff, trying to support them as they consider if they use their parents for childcare etc.

I used the phrase ‘unvaccinated population’ which is has been deemed offensive although it is true and I don’t know how that’s been interpreted that I hate children?

I’m not blaming the pupils I work with. And no I have never used derogatory language to describe the young adults I teach (Yr 9-13 mainly with some Yr 7 and 8). I was making the point that teachers will be in a unique position compared to the situation which we were faced this time last year.

And no I don’t want to find another job. I have taught 21 years. It’s what I’ve always wanted to do and I still want to do it. I’m excellent at it. I am also a parent who wants school communities safe for my own children and not have their education disrupted.

Vectors of infection’ which is used over and over on here by teachers is horrible terminology.

I don't think it's a teacher term, I think it's a scientific one. Do you have a problem with scientists?

@noblegiraffe

I’ll start right now. You’re.

😂

used the phrase ‘unvaccinated population’ which is has been deemed offensive although it is true and I don’t know how that’s been interpreted that I hate children?

I rather suspect that the poster started with a dislike of teachers and worked backwards.

Still waiting for bumbley to produce the working that shows that teachers are 'much safer' now than they were last year. With such a confident claim, I am sure she must have it.

The double vaxxed are also vectors of infection remember as they can catch and spread it still...... (my child's spouse who is double vaxxed had covid in July)

The double vaxxed are also vectors of infection

OMG such foul language....

[quote AchillesLastStand]@noblegiraffe ‘Vectors of infection’ which is used over and over on here by teachers is horrible terminology. Say in theory if black people were more likely to transmit Covid because of some biological reason and posters came on here calling them ‘vectors of infection’, do you think they might get their posts deleted or even banned if they persisted with it?

If your answer is no, then why is it acceptable to talk about children like this?

I’m not referring to ‘the unvaccinated population’, they were another poster’s words not mine. Although it’s not a nice way of talking about children since they don’t have a choice or rather their parents don’t have a choice about whether they are vaccinated, do they? It feels like a blame game. It’s the general description of young children’s normal behaviour as if it were abhorrent that I find so offensive and depressing being a mother of a young child myself.[/quote]
You sound dreadfully PFB.
Is the child your first?

Children are generally pretty unhygienic. Any 7 year old who is fastidious about washing, cleaning and wiping, is not the norm. Trust people on this who have years' more experience with more than just a control group of the one they gave birth to.

You must also be relatively new to MN as you keep trotting out the "as a mother myself" trope. If you stick around, you'll find most women on here prefer to not define themselves by their biological ability to procreate. Being a mother, on MN or anywhere else, gives you no special insight into anything much.

@noblegiraffe

Still waiting for bumbley to produce the working that shows that teachers are 'much safer' now than they were last year. With such a confident claim, I am sure she must have it.

I expect the faint sound of whirring cogs you can hear is the ubiquitous 🍒 picking and cutting, copying and pasting of the relevant (yet out of context) stats. God love her. May she never change as dealing with a critically thinking Bumbley would make my head hurt.

@noblegiraffe

Still waiting for bumbley to produce the working that shows that teachers are 'much safer' now than they were last year. With such a confident claim, I am sure she must have it.

Nope, you must be right noble. Teachers are clearly more at risk this year despite having vaccines and more children already being immune. Clearly, you’re all doomed.

No working then, bumbley that takes into account all the other factors mentioned.

Just a trite statement.

Interesting to read this as well. Where a lot of staff are continually tested (e.g. NHS/teachers), infection numbers will obviously be higher than in working populations where routine testing does not take place. fullfact.org/health/teacher-covid-transmission/

We all know we can't go for elimination and so we have to live with this virus. To most people who are vaccinated, Covid will be mild (please don't jump on me, I know there are exceptions).

Kids tend to get more asymptomatic disease and so many scientists (won't reference here as mentioned in most research on the topic) will assume that someone with severe illness also shred more viral load.

So far, 24 kids have died in the UK. Sad for those involved but clearly a vanishingly low number and those kids who are admitted to hospital tend to have neurological or genetic disabilities (e.g. severe learning disabilities or Down's). This is not widely reported but I refer to a recent, very interesting study/podcast by Zoe.

Long Covid in children has also, in a new study (UCL) been found to be very rare and generally affecting older girls who already had physical or psychological problems.

Basically, we now need to get on with it, stop testing kids routinely (unless symptoms - this is what happens in most other countries), eventually stop testing altogether.

PS - I'm 55+, female with an underlying condition which meant I was supposed to shield. Did so during the first 12 weeks but once data became available (and I actively sought it out, including abroad if I wanted more granular data) I realise my risk profile is low and have since not paid any attention to the shielding list

Just read your @Geamhradh are you usually a bit of an ass IRL or just when you’re behind a keyboard on an anonymous forum?

Next time you see my doing any of the above, please do call me out on it at the time . So far, you haven’t been able to.

Basically, we now need to get on with it, stop testing kids routinely

Well, you’re in luck as this is what is already being put in place, as in, we are getting on with it and young people are not being ‘routinely tested’ bar the start of term. Doesn’t mean we can’t talk about it or consider what might be the consequences of this approach.

@noblegiraffe

No working then, bumbley that takes into account all the other factors mentioned.

Just a trite statement.

Nope, can’t be bothered. It’ll just be dismissed as ‘cherry picking’ or ‘out of context’ etc. You’ve been doom and gloom about schools for the last year, noble so I doubt anything I say is going to change your mind. Clearly the government just want to kill off all teachers so they’ve taken away the only things that were able to offer you any protection and sent you, unarmed, into the fray.

@bumbleymummy

Just read your *@Geamhradh* are you usually a bit of an ass IRL or just when you’re behind a keyboard on an anonymous forum?

Next time you see my doing any of the above, please do call me out on it at the time . So far, you haven’t been able to.

Oh don't worry. I will. And I'll continue to report all your misinformation on various medical matters as I have done over the years. I rather imagine that's why you've toned down some of your more objectionable beliefs, or at least are more circumspect in how you express them compared to a few years ago.

Btw, I defended you on a thread the other day, did you see? You were being lumped in with the swivel-headed anti-vaxxers and I pointed out that you were many things, not many of which I'd want to share a bag of chips with, but you weren't actually a gullible fool who spends all day down deep web rabbit holes.

And yes, I'm consistent too. Just as much of a cunt in real life as I am on here.

You’ve been doom and gloom about schools for the last year, noble

Do you mean the period last year where infections ran out of control in schools and they had to close from Jan to March? Where I was quite right to be doomy, it turned out?

The thing is, in many ways we don’t know if we are at greater risk or lower risk than last year - and it depends on definition.

On the one hand, we are double vaccinated, which for the delta variant means we are slightly less likely to catch Covid, and quite a lot less likely to be very severely ill than last year.

On the other hand, there are no useful mitigations in school, and the population mixing much more widely. It is widely acknowledged that 100% of us will catch Covid.

As risk of harm (in total) = risk of catching Covid x risk of serious disease, the new level of risk of harm could quite easily be similar to last year.

If risk of infection within the school = 10x last year (not an unreasonable assumption in the absence of contact isolation and with events like daily whole school assemblies) the fact that the risk of hospitalisation is reduced 10x is cancelled out.

We shall have to see.

@noblegiraffe

Vectors of infection’ which is used over and over on here by teachers is horrible terminology.

I don't think it's a teacher term, I think it's a scientific one. Do you have a problem with scientists?

It’s an extremely unpleasant term when it’s used to single out one part of the population. I stand by my point that it would not be acceptable to describe black or transgender people as ‘vectors of infection’. You know those posts would be very quickly deleted.

And no I definitely did not ‘start with a dislike of teachers and worked backwards’. On the contrary, I teach at university level myself. At end of the month I will be entering the lecture theatre/seminar room to teach students face to face. I will do it without grumbling or complaining as I realise, like all my colleagues, the benefits of education not just to individual students but wider society as a whole far outweigh the risks of Covid.

@noblegiraffe

Vectors of infection’ which is used over and over on here by teachers is horrible terminology.

I don't think it's a teacher term, I think it's a scientific one. Do you have a problem with scientists?

I think it was Jonathan Van-Tam who used the term in one of the daily briefings. If not, then one of the others.