BMJ: Teachers not at greater risk of hosp'n, and lower risk of severe disease, than general population

[Kokeshi123]

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2060?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=hootsuite&utm_content=sme&utm_campaign=usage

Unlike previous studies, this one actually looked at periods when schools were open and compared like-with-like for those periods.

Compared with adults of working age who are otherwise similar, teachers and their household members were not found to be at increased risk of hospital admission with covid-19 and were found to be at lower risk of severe covid-19. These findings should reassure those who are engaged in face-to-face teaching.

This should not be taken to mean that we should do schooling with no mitigations whatsoever--I'd be in favor of doing indoor masks for kids and teachers till the winter is over if it was up to me, and ventilation is always a good thing anyway. However, at least this should provide some reassurance for teachers and families. And in my opinion, this kind of thing should settle the argument on having any further school closures; mitigations are one thing, but schools absolutely must remain open IMO.

As a teacher I am now in the unique position of working with the unvaccinated population. I hope data will be collected on this exposure now.

Well, isn’t it a good thing that there is now a vaccine available to you and that a significant percentage of children are immune after infection? You’re much safer now than you were last year.

You’re much safer now than you were last year.

Last year, there were clear mitigations in place in schools and if there was any sign of symptoms in a household, they were kept off.

@Howshouldibehave

You’re much safer now than you were last year.

Last year, there were clear mitigations in place in schools and if there was any sign of symptoms in a household, they were kept off.

And you think that is more protective than the vaccine and a higher level of immunity in children?

You’re much safer now than you were last year.

I'd like to see your working out on this, bumbley.

This year we have vaccines (brilliant, but not perfect protection), no restrictions outside of school and nothing stopping the spread of covid in school + delta variant (much more transmissible)

This time last year we had no vaccines (boo) but isolations for contacts, requirements to stay 2m away from kids, no assemblies etc, restrictions on socialisation outside of school plus not even alpha variant.

So how do you calculate that we are 'much safer'?

In the UK but not in England. Our school has been opened under 2 weeks and already is balancing on the edge of a complete closure due to the sheer number of covid cases impacting both pupils and staff. We also still have some mitigations, bubbles etc so God help those schools which don't. So far it has been significantly worse in school this week than at any other point in the pandemic.

That's depressing, jump

@noblegiraffe

You’re much safer now than you were last year.

I'd like to see your working out on this, bumbley.

This year we have vaccines (brilliant, but not perfect protection), no restrictions outside of school and nothing stopping the spread of covid in school + delta variant (much more transmissible)

This time last year we had no vaccines (boo) but isolations for contacts, requirements to stay 2m away from kids, no assemblies etc, restrictions on socialisation outside of school plus not even alpha variant.

So how do you calculate that we are 'much safer'?

Just as I said above to another poster - do you think those mitigations are more protective than the vaccine (which has been shown to reduce the risk of serious illness) and a higher % of immunity among children?

@noblegiraffe

That's depressing, jump

Unfortunately it looks like it is about to become the reality, but many people have their heads buried in the sand. The non isolation of household contacts seems to be the issue. It isn't just our school either it is happening around the country and huge increases in demand for PCR tests along with longer waits for results. Again.

do you think those mitigations are more protective than the vaccine (which has been shown to reduce the risk of serious illness) and a higher % of immunity among children?

You're the one who claims they are not, therefore it's incumbent on you, not me to show the working?

Social distancing and masks also had the benefit of reducing the risk of all infectious disease, not just Covid. Irrespective of what covid is doing, with mitigations and a return to the petri dish of disease that schools have always been, the shit will really start to hit the fan when staff start to get the usual coughs and colds. When they're all off isolating awaiting PCR test results, irrespective of whether they actually have Covid or not, schools will close when staffing is at unsafe levels. Of course staff need to isolate if they have Covid symptoms, but they're less likely to get these symptoms, irrespective of cause, if we had better mitigations in place.

Sorry, that should read "with mitigations removed"

I think, jump that your country (I'm making an assumption here) will see more initial disruption due to the requirement for close contacts to have a negative PCR before returning to school, whereas in England, children can carry on as normal without a PCR.

England will also have more covid, but not necessarily the same big spike in cases. Our surge will not be recorded in the same way.

My point being that there won't just be disruption when they actually have Covid, there'll be disruption all winter because they think they might have Covid. Add that into the usual staffing problems that schools face (which is significant even in non-covid times), and you have a perfect storm, resulting in schools unable to stay open.

@Usual2usual

I am now in the unique position of working with the unvaccinated population

children....you mean children.....they should not be referred to as the fucking 'unvaccinated population' they are people

and it is not unique, lots of people work with children not just teachers

Absolutely this. Also they are not ‘vectors of infection’ either, they are children. I do wonder why when it’s so evident that some posters here loathe young children (endless descriptions from so called ‘teachers’ describing children as snot nosed and revolting), they decided to have career working with them. I find these so called ‘teachers’ with this attitude repulsive and wouldn’t want them anywhere near my little boy (who for the record at the age of 7 has the best personal hygiene of anyone I know). Sorry for the rant!

I don't think the term "unvaccinated population" is offensive, is it? Surely it's just a factual description. The UK unvaccinated population is almost exclusively made up of children.
Though @Achilleslaststand, I can't, tbf, think of many other professions who work with children, anything up to 300-400 a week, in close proximity, in small, often not fit for purpose environments, can you?

You're not sorry for the rant at all, Achilles.

There's a certain type of person who consistently describes children as 'disease vectors' or 'snot nosed and revolting' and it's not teachers.

It's people who want to have a go at teachers.

FFS this country needs to stop cowering before the great unions

What great unions? The teaching unions that couldn't even get funding for hand sanitiser?

Why do people keep falling for the Daily Mail line on teaching unions?

@noblegiraffe

I think, jump that your country (I'm making an assumption here) will see more initial disruption due to the requirement for close contacts to have a negative PCR before returning to school, whereas in England, children can carry on as normal without a PCR.

England will also have more covid, but not necessarily the same big spike in cases. Our surge will not be recorded in the same way.

Yes potentially. Day 2 and day 8 tests are a requirement but hopefully the disruption will settle down and the testing will pay off in reducing the overall spread and containing the outbreaks within the schools.

I don't really think teachers are whining about doing their jobs, they want to do their jobs. They know how schools operate and can well forsee what will inevitably happen. There's NOTHING that teachers can do about it, they don't want to be at home, they want to be in school. It's not a case of putting on a brave face, soldiering on and just doing their job, because circumstances beyond their control will dictate that they can't do their job in school. Illness will spread in school without mitigations, not just Covid (although there will be lots of that), but many things which present like Covid. Teachers will be at home, and schools will close. Or are you suggesting teachers stay in school with covid symptoms?

Mehta a surprise the 'special case' teachers are wingeing again. Just like last year.
The thread was not started by a teacher. Just someone having an opinion on schools. Again. Just like last year.

FFS this country needs to stop cowering before the great unions.
Closures had nothing to do with unions. It was the government. And that decision was nothing to do with teachers safety either.

Start doing your jobs. Your double jabbed so get on with it!
I’ll start right now. You’re.

I'm still not fully convinced, simply through my own anecdotal experience.

Of all the people I know it's mainly those who work in schools, hospitals or care homes who have had it. Most of the other working people I know haven't. The other group who I personally know who've had it, especially recently, are teenagers. Dh works in an office and out of nearly 200 staff less than 10 have had covid.

In my school over 80% of staff have caught covid, almost all over a 6 week period last October. Almost all cases seem to have come from school. At that point staff weren't mixing with one another due to bubbles, closed staff rooms, etc. Also we had a number of parents and children with covid.

Many of our staff were ill with covid.
I was hospitalised and no have life long co,plications and medication.
A number of them are still having lingering issues 10 months on.
For several they were ill for longer than their 10 days isolation, though most could return to school after 10 days.

I’ll start right now. You’re.

@howshouldibehave and @mumsneedwine exactly. My colleagues with long covid certainly won't feel reassured by this article. None of them ended up in hospital, sure, but it has had a debilitating effect on their life and they don't know how long this will be for (one has had long covid for a year and has had to move back in with her parents to be looked after - she can't work).

You’re much safer now than you were last year.

Main reason why the staff at my school are much safer now is that we are all double vaccinated (actually one isn't due to her age - she is having her second vaccination this weekend), though she has already had covid so protected in that way)and most of us have had covid as well.

It might be interesting to see whether our two new young male staff members, and our 2 young trainee teachers catch it. They are mostly vaccinated but none have ha covid that they are aware of.