No vaccines for healthy 12-15 Yr olds

[Wellbythebloodyhell]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-will-not-be-recommended-for-healthy-children-aged-12-to-15-government-advisers-say-12398444

Is anyone else glad this potential decision has been taken away? I was very much undecided about vaccinating my older dc and now feel a bit of a weight has been lifted now its not something I need to consider.

Thanks @bumbleymummy for understanding me through my rage

Parents/young people should be given the choice.

"Surely the ends would justify the means?"

Rather simplistic way of looking at the world

Depends on the ends and the means taken to achieve it. In the real world there is a middle ground between allowing something and banning it. We all accept restrictions on our personal freedoms as the price for being part of society.

@walksen

Re pregnant women in hospital and icu.**@ICNARC** report of intensive care admissions and outcomes in England, Wales & N. Ireland.

Plenty of doctors on twitter commenting on unvaccinated in ICU at including unvaccinated pregnant women.

Royal college of midwives recommends getting vaccinated.

Thanks. Is this the one you’re referring to?

www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/7ec6e186-d50c-ec11-9135-00505601089b

Which one shows ‘patients on ICU wards in the uk are disproportionately pregnant women’?

@BewareTheLibrarians

Thanks *@bumbleymummy* for understanding me through my rage

:)

Which one? You have only linked one report. Have you not found the appropriate page yet?

Yes, I’m asking which page you were referring to. Thanks.

I haven't referred to a specific page but it's not hard to find.

It does clearly show that the proportion of pregnant women admitted to critical care has increased significantly since march last year. This may be hesitancy to have the vaccine or a delta effect or a combination of the two.

I wanted my DC to have the jab. Reduces transmission, safer for everyone else, get back to life with a sense of security etc etc. My DC also both wanted the jab. If there is no need for 12-15 year olds to have the jab, then I will hope that schools stay open and no more lockdowns for them.

Busybee5000 I asked ds if he wanted to get vaccinated and he said “I don’t want to, I NEED to. Our WiFi is shit.”

I think he was joking…

@walksen

I haven't referred to a specific page but it's not hard to find.

Well I’m looking at the chart on page 52 that shows the pregnancy status of critically ill women age 16-49 and it shows that the majority of women in this group aren’t currently pregnant so I was wondering if you were referring to something else.

Based on the table on page 25, there are significantly more patients with a BMI > 30 in critical care than there are pregnant women so I was just wondering why you said that it was disproportionately full of pregnant women specifically.

Page 40 shows that back at th start of the pandemic 5% of women in critical care were pregnant. Now it is hovering just under 20%. Given that the UK only has 650k births each year, it is not plausible that 20% of women 16 to 49 are pregnant is it?

For a while I thought you were genuinely interested but now I think you misunderstood disproportionate to mean majority?

No, I didn’t think you meant majority. Disproportionate compared to what?

We don’t usually vaccinate 12-15 year olds for the flu, no.
We do in Scotland.

I'm just not sure why you you are comparing obesity to pregnancy then?

At the start of the pandemic it was noted that admissions were disproportionately old, male, obese, bame etc.
I.e the proportion in Icu was higher than that of the general population indicating that those groups were at higher risk from the virus. You could look up what this proportion is I suppose

So 20% of women in ICU being pregnant compared to 5% at the start of the pandemic strongly suggests they are also at slightly higher risk currently than women who are not pregnant. Midwives etc are advising pregnant mothers to get jabbed.

I'm very pro vaccines by the way, and I know they're excellent at preventing hospitalisation and death.

PHE Technical Briefing 22 released yesterday shows the death rate among unvaccinated covid cases is 24 per 10,000 whereas the death rate among double vaccinated covid cases is 96 per 10,000.
Since 1st Feb, of the 1798 total deaths 1091 were double jabbed and only 536 unvaccinated. The rest were single jabbed.

"We don’t usually vaccinate 12-15 year olds for the flu, no"

We did in England last year, too. At least they did in the school I worked at. A powder squirted up the nose with a plastic syringe.

I'm very pro vaccines by the way, and I know they're excellent at preventing hospitalisation and death.

PHE Technical Briefing 22 released yesterday shows the death rate among unvaccinated covid cases is 24 per 10,000 whereas the death rate among double vaccinated covid cases is 96 per 10,000.
Since 1st Feb, of the 1798 total deaths 1091 were double jabbed and only 536 unvaccinated. The rest were single jabbed

So how are you interpreting these statistics?

BewareTheLibrarians

But there is a huge problem with the mainstream media picking up parts like bumbleymummy’s post, and people who haven’t experienced long covid in their own children then think”oh it’s just a bit of lockdown boredom, or fatigue because they got lazy over lockdown.” Or “parents worrying about nothing”.

There’s next to no reporting about the children who do get Mis-c (which was pretty horrible) or who are left with asthma, or severe fatigue (as in, can’t get out of bed for more than an hour), or organ damage. Unfortunately that doesn’t match the government’s “covid doesn’t affect children” narrative, so it’s rarely reported on.

Leaving those of us who have experienced this being disbelieved or thought to be over reacting, and meaning vaccination might be thought of as “more risky”. People are left making a decision without necessarily having all the facts.

And for the exact same reasons, parents of children who have suffered life changing vaccine reactions (or death) are simply labelled “antivaxxers” for not wanting to have or give their remaining children these new vaccines. Most people haven’t seen or experienced it and so can’t understand their reasons and label them nutters etc.

walksen

The total number of unvaxxed cases since 1st Feb was 219716, and the total number of double jabbed cases was 113823. So it looks as though double jabbed people are less likely to catch COVID but is they do catch it they are four times more likely to die from it than an unvaxxed case.

@walksen

I'm very pro vaccines by the way, and I know they're excellent at preventing hospitalisation and death.

PHE Technical Briefing 22 released yesterday shows the death rate among unvaccinated covid cases is 24 per 10,000 whereas the death rate among double vaccinated covid cases is 96 per 10,000.
Since 1st Feb, of the 1798 total deaths 1091 were double jabbed and only 536 unvaccinated. The rest were single jabbed

So how are you interpreting these statistics?

Badly it seems🙄

@Nancydrawn

I wrote a lot of stats on a thread last night that got deleted as started by a troll, but:

Delta is different. Delta in classrooms is different.

I'm in the States, and southern states' schools have been in session since the beginning of August.

Pediatric covid cases are through the roof, and this is despite a healthy minority of 12-17 year olds having had the vaccine.

--Pediatric ICUs are full in many states and big cities.

--In Florida, there have been almost 64,000 cases of Covid in children under 12. 68 children per day are being hospitalized. That's the equivalent of about 206 per week in the UK.

--In Alabama, school-aged cases have doubled in less than a week. (It's worth noting that testing is very low as it's can be expensive over here.) In the UK, the equivalent would be 210,600 school children in two weeks.

---In Georgia, there's a tenfold increase in pediatric/school-aged cases than in August 2020.

I have hopes that the numbers will be better back home than over here, as the UK has better rates of vaccination amongst adults. But I should also say that the numbers above include up to 20% of 12-17s being vaccinated.

This is what concerns me. The variant we're dealing with now is far more contagious than the variants that informed the transmission statistics everyone keeps referring to for children. The numbers feeding into the myths that "kids don't get COVID-19" or "kids get COVID-19 but then they're fine" are probably outdated.

I've had a child overnight in the hospital who couldn't breathe. It wasn't ICU, but it was ambulance-worthy. Her oxygen levels didn't stabilise for two nights and two full days, and the first lot of medicines the doctors tried with her didn't work. It is a horrific experience, and compared to what a lot of other families go through, it wasn't even that bad. There's nothing you can do as a parent with a sick child in the hospital but pray. I am petrified of her landing back in the hospital, and being told I can't even stay with her to keep her calm.

This isn't the first time the JCVI's decision on children's vaccines has disappointed me, and I'm not really sure what the purpose of Britain's MHRA actually is if a completely different committee gets to call the shots anyway.

The only child in our house who would be eligible for a vaccine is 15 and will be going to the first walk-in clinic that will have her as soon as she's allowed. She wants the vaccine. She doesn't want long COVID. She doesn't want to play Russian roulette and end up being in the hospital herself.

I once had a former FB friend who was a vocal and prominent anti-vaxxer. Nothing could dissuade her. She used to say, repeatedly, that measles was just an annoying childhood virus for most kids, and that the only reason anyone got more serious complications that a few spots, was because they lacked vitamin A in their diets. It was a complete and dangerous misunderstanding of virology and infection. And no, she was not remotely qualified to understand the charts and graphs on PubMed that she attempted to read.

Yes, it's hard to realize just how different this feels than it did before.

I'm less worried for the northern states, which have high adult vaccination rates and mandatory school masking.

In the south, there's often low vaccination rates and a ban on school masking.

Georgia's an interesting blend: slightly higher vaccination rates than Alabama and Mississippi; no ban on masks like Florida. Each district makes its own call; about a third have a mask requirement.

And these are the pictures of the numbers, taken from their covid dashboard. Schools started in early August. It's bloody terrifying.