No vaccines for healthy 12-15 Yr olds

[Wellbythebloodyhell]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-will-not-be-recommended-for-healthy-children-aged-12-to-15-government-advisers-say-12398444

Is anyone else glad this potential decision has been taken away? I was very much undecided about vaccinating my older dc and now feel a bit of a weight has been lifted now its not something I need to consider.

The number of children who have died or had severe illness with covid is vanishingly small. Literally 99.99% do not get seriously unwell even if they catch it.

OTOH there have been deaths from the vaccine. Adults need to look at the risks vs the benefits. But for children, it's all risk for zero benefit. And that is why the experts have made this recommendation.

It would be absolutely tragic if a parent fought for their teen to be jabbed and then the teen had a serious and life changing reaction.

@Vanda189 great post.

On the other hand, consequences of having covid is really unknown.

Except for the 18+ months of data we have on it…

We all know about the adverse effects of the virus. In most cases, it not even fatal and is very treatable.

Where have they said this?

It's part of their statement.

Surely it’s an even worse case scenario if looking at only one “extremely rare” side effect was enough to tip the balance of the benefit?

Except that it didn't. It is only a small part of their deliberations.

How much did the JCVI consider the effects of long covid in children in this report? That’s what worries most parents I’ve talked to.

Does it not make you question why Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Ireland etc etc have been busily offering vaccines to 12 plus whilst we dither and delay? Why are we the odd one out?

Bumblemummy, exactly. Posters keep saying this but the exact same can be said about the vaccines - nobody knows the long term effect of them either, especially with regard to additional booster doses or to teens and young people.
On the contrary, at least 18 months of data has been collected on post covid issues and it seems that most mild case post illness effects follow known post viral patterns and in almost all cases resolve themselves within a few months.

"Does it not make you question why Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Ireland etc etc have been busily offering vaccines to 12 plus whilst we dither and delay? Why are we the odd one out"

Those countries can't do proper risk assessment apparently....

@mrshoho

Does it not make you question why Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Ireland etc etc have been busily offering vaccines to 12 plus whilst we dither and delay? Why are we the odd one out?

The same reason that many aspects of healthcare differ between countries. Some countries offer the chicken pox vaccine as standard. We don’t. Some countries have completely privatised healthcare, some don’t. Some people travel to other countries for treatments that aren’t available here. I don’t think we can judge our response based on what other countries are doing.

Good. We've had covid, whilst DH and I were rough, our children have had worse colds and were barely affected. I would not want my DC vaccinated.

It doesn’t make me question why other European countries are offering it to 12-18 year olds, in fact it makes me quite pleased and relieved that the uk has at least some slither of sensibility and actual duty of care left.
Have you seen what’s going on in france? At the end of this month, unless vaccinated, over 12’s are excluded from cinemas, restaurants, swimming pools, museums, leisure centres, fairs and theme parks, libraries, long distance coaches and trains and sports clubs. In addition, if there is a case at school, vaccinated kids remain in class, unvaccinated kids have to home school for a week and they also can’t leave the EU territory unless they have an extraordinary reason for requiring to.
That gives you an idea of the kind of country France is becoming and no, I’m not envious of them basically forcing kids to be vaccinated.

@Vanda189

Wise decision by JCVI, so glad they maintained their integrity in the face of unprecedented pressure from the government.

Sadly this will in any case be overruled for the first time ever by the CMOs, in what will be an exceptionally poor short-sighted decision but popular with scientifically illiterate parents, probably driven by the teaching unions and populism. Announcement Sunday.

Phase 1 and 2 has been invaluable, life-saving and driven by exceptional advice of JCVI including the extension of the interval between 1st and 2nd doses from 3 to 12 (then 8) weeks.

Phase 3 not so much for a number of reasons at both individual and population-wide levels.

popular with scientifically illiterate parents, did you mean to be so rude?

exceptional advice of JCVI including the extension of the interval between 1st and 2nd doses from 3 to 12 (then 8) weeks. that could be unpicked a bit more as well. Everyone was making decisions blindly and the UK in fact did quite well for a while. It was a good idea to space the doses more widely,

However, the risk to the most vulnerable groups eg 1, then 2 then 3 is so much higher than to the less vulnerable groups that I have wondered whether going for a 6 week interval first off, as the BMA suggested, would actually have saved more lives at that point. After all, we did end up with an 8 week gap, quite close to the BMA's recommendation.

It would be possible to model, I guess.

You work for the exceptional JCVI as well then, do you?

@BoredZelda

Where have they said this?

It's part of their statement.

Surely it’s an even worse case scenario if looking at only one “extremely rare” side effect was enough to tip the balance of the benefit?

Except that it didn't. It is only a small part of their deliberations.

I don’t see where they’ve said it was “one of the main reasons they are against it”.

You’re the one who said they only looked at one “extremely rare side effect”.

"Have you seen what’s going on in france?"

You mean how their vaccination rate leaves ours in the dust despite their slow start?

@noblegiraffe

Yes, Roguehair, they also said "JCVI has considered commentary from stakeholders on the benefits of vaccination on the operation of schools and the educational impact of the pandemic on children and young people. JCVI is constituted with expertise to allow consideration of the health benefits and risks of vaccination and it is not within its remit to incorporate in-depth considerations on wider societal impacts, including educational benefits. The government may wish to seek further views on the wider societal and educational impacts from the chief medical officers of the 4 nations, with representation from JCVI in these subsequent discussions."

So there may also be educational benefits to children which the JCVI have said that they are not qualified to quantify.

They also hand the reins to Chris Whitty on the final decision for rolling out the vaccine.

I'm not sure what expertise they think that he has that they don't, given that it is literally their job to analyse the benefits of vaccines to society, and it's all a bit weird.

literally their job to analyse the benefits of vaccines to society

vaccines which have literally been approved by the MHRA months ago for this group

@walksen

"Have you seen what’s going on in france?"

You mean how their vaccination rate leaves ours in the dust despite their slow start?

Well no, she means everything she said in the post above, where she describes in detail what she means. At a guess, anyway.

@HairyToity

Good. We've had covid, whilst DH and I were rough, our children have had worse colds and were barely affected. I would not want my DC vaccinated.

then don't - other people are a bit more worried about covid, with fair reason

@walksen

"Have you seen what’s going on in france?"

You mean how their vaccination rate leaves ours in the dust despite their slow start?

So? I’d much rather have a lower vaccination rate and not be living with those kind of restrictions being placed on unvaccinated children, thanks.

@Maskless

The number of children who have died or had severe illness with covid is vanishingly small. Literally 99.99% do not get seriously unwell even if they catch it.

OTOH there have been deaths from the vaccine. Adults need to look at the risks vs the benefits. But for children, it's all risk for zero benefit. And that is why the experts have made this recommendation.

It would be absolutely tragic if a parent fought for their teen to be jabbed and then the teen had a serious and life changing reaction.

more risks from covid than the vaccine

not clear to me why we aren't following other westerniseed countries on this

On the risks of myocarditis following the vaccine. It doesn’t seem to be very well know that covid can cause myocarditis in children, and appears to cause it more frequently than the vaccine does. It also doesn’t seem to be very well known that the vast majority of cases of myocarditis after the vaccine were mostly benign (not dangerous) and cleared up without medical intervention

www.aappublications.org/news/2021/08/31/covid-myocarditis-risk-children-083121

In recent months, there has been concern about a small risk of myocarditis after receiving an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine. A June study showed among males ages 12-29 years — the group with the highest rates of myocarditis after vaccination — there would be an estimated 39 to 47 cases of myocarditis for every million second doses of vaccine. Authors of the new study say their findings support health officials’ assertions that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks.

www.medscape.com/viewarticle/956359

The adolescents who developed heart inflammation after vaccination typically had a benign course, with symptoms resolving without treatment

The JCVI also haven’t considered the effects long covid in their analysis, even though we now know that 1 in 7 children who contract covid go on to develop long covid.

@mrshoho

Does it not make you question why Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Ireland etc etc have been busily offering vaccines to 12 plus whilst we dither and delay? Why are we the odd one out?

We’ve made different decisions before and it has been correct.

I appreciate scientific decision makers holding even if not in line all the time

I’d be more nervous if not correct before

If we should just follow what other countries are doing, what’s the point in having our own decision making body at all?

The result of which is

" their vaccination rate leaves ours in the dust despite their slow start?"

So it worked didn't it? Their vaccine rollout has surpassed ours reducing demand on health services, educational disruption etc.

Mark my words. In a few weeks the government will drop twice weekly testing in schools due to the rates going up. They have repeatedly told us schools are safe from COVID and will need to try and cover up the fact that they aren't and they lied to everyone.
Ventilation in schools is often nil with windows sealed up for years. The supposed CO monitors are not going to happen any time soon (as it would again show up how unsafe schools are).
Children's education will be disrupted for yet another year with so many children and teachers ill with COVID. Vaccination would have reduced this disruption massively.

What decisions would they be MarshaBradyo?