1000+ in ventilator beds already & school return with no household isolation

[RumblyMumbly]

Number of people in ventilator beds 1,014 on 31/08/21

It has been a steady / manageable rise since restrictions lifted in mid May when there were 125 patients in ventilator beds & while obviously awful for the people affected and their families this means the NHS has coped while there has been a lot of Covid cases

Does anyone else feel we may be at the tipping point? Schools in England mostly return this week for Autumn term.

If we compare with last years school return there were only 71 ventilator beds occupied on 31/08/20. Yes, we now have 64% of the total population double vaccinated which puts us in a far better situation than last year when the population had no protection. However, we had household isolations this time last year for positive cases, this year other household members of a positive case will be attending school and workplaces alongside everyone else and generally people will begin meeting indoors much more over the next few months.

Purpose of my post - nervousness about what will happen next...I don't want schools to close at all, children have already had 2 years of disrupted education. But to give my own personal experience - obviously other peoples differ - secondary remote learning can work if absolutely necessary (full schedule of lessons / homework) but primary remote learning (1hr lesson per day) did not work AT ALL & the vast majority of primary aged children are not ready to become independent learners while parents are in an impossible situation as they can't work and moonlight as a teacher.

I hope SAGE / the Government are watching the figures very closely and if we need a circuit breaker in October to keep the NHS manageable they act fast.

@Cornettoninja

I don’t know why you don’t just let it drop?

Because you won’t and you’re actually quite offensive about it.

You said that obesity is down to MH issues. I disagree

Did I say that? Did I say that every case of obesity is down to MH issues?

I agree sometimes it is, absolutely, but not every person that is obese has MH issues

That’s not what you posted though is it? You posted that the notion obesity was treated with input from MH professionals as a duel diagnosis was, and I quote, ‘absolute rubbish’ and ‘a kick in the teeth to anyone with real MH issues’.

That’s what you posted. It’s not up to me to know what you think beyond the words you post on screen. If you think ‘sometimes’ obesity/addiction is a consequence of MH issues maybe don’t make sweeping, offensive statements to contrary.

I’m done now anyway, there’s no point in talking to you beyond what I’ve already posted and I’ve contributed to the derailment enough.

You inferred that Obesity is a MH problem.

You never at any point suggested that it isn’t always the case, or acknowledged it, despite having ample opportunity to correct yourself or make yourself more clear.

You didn’t like it when I pulled you up on your false statements.

You’re ignorance is offensive

erm Cornettoninja actually wrote that it was 'often' linked to MH issues, which it is. You will see that if you re read.

@mrshoho

erm Cornettoninja actually wrote that it was 'often' linked to MH issues, which it is. You will see that if you re read.

You’re absolutely right and I apologise to *@Cornettoninja*, as I thought she was the poster that made the actual statement

But they are not the same at all. Addiction is a mental illness, so is obesity. There are no easy preventative measures that can be offered to these, unlike with coronavirus 19

My replies were in response to @50ShadesOfCatholic and the above comment.

I apologise @Cornettoninja

All the time the government allow the virus free rein to spread largely unrestricted our situation will get worse.

This isn't necessarily true - lockdowns / restrictions aren't required for cases to drop. Up until about 100 years ago there were no vaccines and health care was pretty much non-existent the world over. Viruses had free rein to spread unrestricted. The situation didn't simply get worse and worse forever. It got bad, there was a natural peak, and then the situation improved. People developed natural immunity and over time the viruses evolved into less harmful strains.

In previous waves of covid-19, the government actually chose to extend the time frame for each wave using lockdowns. This was necessary to prevent the collapse of the healthcare system. The peaks (cases, hospitalisations and deaths), and the time frame for the whole wave, were artificial. We cannot simply say that the first wave took 3 months (or whatever) therefore this one will too.

Hospitalisations may have doubled twice in the past 9 weeks, but that doesn't mean they will double again during the next 9 weeks. We could easily be past the semi-natural* peak for this wave way before that.

*semi-natural because we don't have restrictions but we do have vaccines

Viruses had free rein to spread unrestricted. The situation didn't simply get worse and worse forever. It got bad, there was a natural peak, and then the situation improved. People developed natural immunity and over time the viruses evolved into less harmful strains. Slightly glossing over the deaths and disabilities there!

It’s completely different this year with the vaccine. My sisters a nurse and literally every single occupied bed is by someone who is unvaccinated. Is it fair we now lock down for stupid people who refuse vaccines? Absolutely not. They take the risk and we shouldn’t suffer because of them. And before anyone bites back it’s an incredibly small number of people who cannot have the vaccine due to medical reasons and we also cannot lock down for them.

@Chillychangchoo

It’s completely different this year with the vaccine. My sisters a nurse and literally every single occupied bed is by someone who is unvaccinated. Is it fair we now lock down for stupid people who refuse vaccines? Absolutely not. They take the risk and we shouldn’t suffer because of them. And before anyone bites back it’s an incredibly small number of people who cannot have the vaccine due to medical reasons and we also cannot lock down for them.

How can this be when government stats show 2/3rds of deaths are double vaccinated? Maybe they just leave the vaccinated people on the street

Slightly glossing over the deaths and disabilities there!

Do you mean deaths and disabilities caused by historic viruses while natural immunity was developing in the population? Because there certainly was plenty of those but I specifically didn't want to try to compare those to the modern day - the post was long enough!

@Chillychangchoo

It’s completely different this year with the vaccine. My sisters a nurse and literally every single occupied bed is by someone who is unvaccinated. Is it fair we now lock down for stupid people who refuse vaccines? Absolutely not. They take the risk and we shouldn’t suffer because of them. And before anyone bites back it’s an incredibly small number of people who cannot have the vaccine due to medical reasons and we also cannot lock down for them.

Respectfully, your sisters anecdote does not tally with the national statistics for hospitalisations, so someone is embellishing the truth.

Lockdowns will not happen just because around 10% of the adult population are holding off a vaccine, they will happen also because a high percentage of vaccinated will get sick and become very ill too.

The vaccines are not the saviours in this, they help but WE also have to take responsibility and accept our actions will impact the rate of spread and risk of restrictions coming back.

I would hazard a guess those two thirds are well over the expected “life expectancy”.

I mean let’s face it….. they were probably gonna die anyway of their next common cold/flu etc!. Their time was up!

Younger people in ICU and people underneath the life expectancy age are overwhelmingly likely to not have had the vaccine. There will be outliers but that’s life, people die all the time. Sepsis, flu,
Pneumonia, chicken pox, I mean the list is endless. You see we humans are not immortal, much to the confusion on Mumsnet.

@Thewiseoneincognito

Respectfully I wouldn’t listen to a single word you ever said, you are a prolific doom monger here on mumsnet and you’re not that wise.

[quote Chillychangchoo]@Thewiseoneincognito

Respectfully I wouldn’t listen to a single word you ever said, you are a prolific doom monger here on mumsnet and you’re not that wise.[/quote]
🙄 that old chestnut.

As always being realistic and pragmatic is prolific doom mongering, meanwhile you’re here spreading misinformation about the unvaxxed filling up hospitals when the official statistics say different,

Don’t believe me? Check the news.

✌🏼

@Onandoff

Where I work every single intubated patient is a vaccine refuser.

EVERY SINGLE ONE.

We can’t justify punishing children to protect adults who have chosen not to protect themselves.

We have sacrificed the education of our children to save the elderly We cant sacrifice them further to save those who won't help themselves.

@Thewiseoneincognito

Honestly you need to give the forum a break. You’ve been on it non stop since the beginning of the year and at first I listened to your views and gave them credit as I like to hear different perspectives etc, but you have been increasingly erratic as the year has gone on.

You have huge anxiety and control issues and I suggest you work on your mental health as covid is probably the least of your concerns.

Other than that I really can’t care to debate with someone who clearly needs help. I genuinely mean that.

a high percentage of vaccinated will get sick and become very ill too.

This just isn't true. It might get to the point that the very small percentage of fully vaccinated people who get ill enough to require hospital treatment still outstrips the availability of hospital beds. But that is because a small percentage of a huge number is still a pretty big number.

But claiming that a high percentage of vaccinated people become very ill is quite incorrect.

@Chillychangchoo

I would hazard a guess those two thirds are well over the expected “life expectancy”.

I mean let’s face it….. they were probably gonna die anyway of their next common cold/flu etc!. Their time was up!

Younger people in ICU and people underneath the life expectancy age are overwhelmingly likely to not have had the vaccine. There will be outliers but that’s life, people die all the time. Sepsis, flu,
Pneumonia, chicken pox, I mean the list is endless. You see we humans are not immortal, much to the confusion on Mumsnet.

Chilly - that's a fairly callous way to talk about older people. It's also inaccurate. If you actually live to achieve the age of 83 (average life expectancy for a woman in the UK) you can expect to live on average a further 9 years. So your time is far from up. I think you need to reflect on whether or not you'd be so blase about an adored parent or grandparent losing those additional 9 years...

@Chillychangchoo

I would hazard a guess those two thirds are well over the expected “life expectancy”.

I mean let’s face it….. they were probably gonna die anyway of their next common cold/flu etc!. Their time was up!

Younger people in ICU and people underneath the life expectancy age are overwhelmingly likely to not have had the vaccine. There will be outliers but that’s life, people die all the time. Sepsis, flu,
Pneumonia, chicken pox, I mean the list is endless. You see we humans are not immortal, much to the confusion on Mumsnet.

This is really distasteful but also nonsense. If someone dies aged 60 of Covid, they may have missed 15 or 20 years of life.

Look at the statistics.

[quote Chillychangchoo]@Thewiseoneincognito

Honestly you need to give the forum a break. You’ve been on it non stop since the beginning of the year and at first I listened to your views and gave them credit as I like to hear different perspectives etc, but you have been increasingly erratic as the year has gone on.

You have huge anxiety and control issues and I suggest you work on your mental health as covid is probably the least of your concerns.

Other than that I really can’t care to debate with someone who clearly needs help. I genuinely mean that.[/quote]
💀 that’s it I’m dead.

Honestly, I nearly just wet myself. 🤷🏻‍♀️😆

"Secondary remote learning can work if absolutely necessary (full schedule of lessons / homework)"

That's an incredibly privileged statement and not the experience of thousands and thousands of secondary children.

@putthetubeinthebin

"Secondary remote learning can work if absolutely necessary (full schedule of lessons / homework)"

That's an incredibly privileged statement and not the experience of thousands and thousands of secondary children.

There should places in school for those who need them of course, but it is factual to say that remote learning worked fine for many.

@agedmother

It’s not callous but can appreciate it comes across that way. I’ve worked with many an old person during my career and those extra “9 years” are genuinely not of good quality. In fact we are now so obsessed with lengthening our lives we forget that actually the quality is often very poor. Not all modern medicine has been kind in that way.

Many a time I’ve been driven to tears by extremely old service users who’s quality of life is utterly desperate. I wouldn’t even want to see my dog live in the way some elderly people do.

I do hope I’m gone before I get to that point.

That's not practical. It's not just those on protection plans or the ones known about. Plenty under the radar or whose situations aren't quite bad enough.

So many kids in awful family situations, violence, no space, poor internet, responsibility for siblings, parents who are working and not able to supervise, no food (and yes the vouchers helped but no stopping someone spending them on shit food or booze).

I accept it's not the majority but it's a high number. School is a lifeline for these kids.

My own child has a lovely home life and would never have ended up on the list of kids given a school place during lockdown but the decline in her mental health was insane.

It does show incredible privilege to just assume secondary kids can have their education at home.

@putthetubeinthebin

Absolutely agree. It benefits the privileged only who presume all disadvantaged kids and those on the border get a free one way ticket into school. They don’t. The attainment gap has already widened so much since the lockdowns so that’s proof it doesn’t work.

Chillychango
'That's life, people die all the time...'

I'm 41 in remission from lymphoma. I had to have a stem cell transplant which destroyed my immune system. I am double jabbed but likely have no covid immunity and could become very ill if I caught it.

Would you have the gall to spout that callous crap to my face if you met me at the school gates taking my 5 and 7 yr old children in? Or are us CEV people (3.5million of us in the UK) expendable as far as you are concerned?

It’s absolutely disgusting isn’t it that someone would speak like this @Babamamananarama

Why can’t people realise that this is life now, but to protect others we need old restrictions back, such as masks in public areas and everyone isolating in a household whilst someone is waiting on a PCR result and receiving a positive result.