1000+ in ventilator beds already & school return with no household isolation

[RumblyMumbly]

Number of people in ventilator beds 1,014 on 31/08/21

It has been a steady / manageable rise since restrictions lifted in mid May when there were 125 patients in ventilator beds & while obviously awful for the people affected and their families this means the NHS has coped while there has been a lot of Covid cases

Does anyone else feel we may be at the tipping point? Schools in England mostly return this week for Autumn term.

If we compare with last years school return there were only 71 ventilator beds occupied on 31/08/20. Yes, we now have 64% of the total population double vaccinated which puts us in a far better situation than last year when the population had no protection. However, we had household isolations this time last year for positive cases, this year other household members of a positive case will be attending school and workplaces alongside everyone else and generally people will begin meeting indoors much more over the next few months.

Purpose of my post - nervousness about what will happen next...I don't want schools to close at all, children have already had 2 years of disrupted education. But to give my own personal experience - obviously other peoples differ - secondary remote learning can work if absolutely necessary (full schedule of lessons / homework) but primary remote learning (1hr lesson per day) did not work AT ALL & the vast majority of primary aged children are not ready to become independent learners while parents are in an impossible situation as they can't work and moonlight as a teacher.

I hope SAGE / the Government are watching the figures very closely and if we need a circuit breaker in October to keep the NHS manageable they act fast.

@Babamamananarama that's a horrid position to be in. It might be worth having a look at Good Law Project who are trying to help families in your position with regard to schools.

I’m sick to death of being in public areas and having people space invade me constantly.

Covid hasn’t gone away and to live a relatively normal life we do need to adapt, not just go back to ‘normal’ else we will end up in some sort of lockdown again, that’s inevitable.

Selfish selfish people.

[quote Chillychangchoo]@agedmother

It’s not callous but can appreciate it comes across that way. I’ve worked with many an old person during my career and those extra “9 years” are genuinely not of good quality. In fact we are now so obsessed with lengthening our lives we forget that actually the quality is often very poor. Not all modern medicine has been kind in that way.

Many a time I’ve been driven to tears by extremely old service users who’s quality of life is utterly desperate. I wouldn’t even want to see my dog live in the way some elderly people do.

I do hope I’m gone before I get to that point.[/quote]
And you say that I’m in need of help! 😳

You’re insinuating that the latter years of older people are so grim they’re better off passing away because their time is up.

Ask any 80 year old if they’d rather see 89 or simply catch Covid and die off and I’m sure they’ll unanimously agree to keeping the 9 years.

Your thinking is actually frightening, I’ll be keeping an eye on your posts, your narrative is way off and very dangerous.

@Babamamananarama

Chillychango 'That's life, people die all the time...'

I'm 41 in remission from lymphoma. I had to have a stem cell transplant which destroyed my immune system. I am double jabbed but likely have no covid immunity and could become very ill if I caught it.

Would you have the gall to spout that callous crap to my face if you met me at the school gates taking my 5 and 7 yr old children in? Or are us CEV people (3.5million of us in the UK) expendable as far as you are concerned?

It’s situations like yours that are so heartbreaking. I’m so pleased you’re ok now. It must have been horrific, the stress.

I know someone who died recently of cancer at 39 and left behind 3 kids (youngest being 11) It’s just so unfair that some people die young. Sadly so many people do. Only got the opportunity to live half a life and then their poor kids grow up without a parent.

This is the kind of situation whereby it makes me realise how lucky people are that are fortunate enough to live in to their 80’s. So many people die way way before their time, yet others live until their 90’s. They are so lucky.

@putthetubeinthebin

"Secondary remote learning can work if absolutely necessary (full schedule of lessons / homework)"

That's an incredibly privileged statement and not the experience of thousands and thousands of secondary children.

@putthetubeinthebin if you want to challenge my viewpoint at least have the decency to post my complete sentence

But to give my own personal experience - obviously other peoples differ - secondary remote learning can work if absolutely necessary (full schedule of lessons / homework) but primary remote learning (1hr lesson per day) did not work AT ALL & the vast majority of primary aged children are not ready to become independent learners while parents are in an impossible situation as they can't work and moonlight as a teacher

I accept remote learning did not work for everybody, I was highlighting that far less content was available to primary children and that children that age need constant parental supervision and input. However, schools, often through communities charitable collections, (as the Government funded laptops took ages to arrive) worked hard to find ways to get technology to people who were told not to attend in person. Schools were also able to provide onsite provision for vulnerable children and those with keyworker parents.

@Babamamananarama

I’m sorry to hear about your diagnosis however even without covid in this world you were already incredibly vulnerable to many viruses which is incredibly shit for you, however I still stand by what I said in that we should absolutely not lockdown again and there are people refusing vaccines taking up beds who do not fit your criteria.

Do you think children’s education should be ruined for people who are clinically vulnerable then? Do we save them and not kids? What about the mental health of the nation? Does that not matter? My friends cancer treatment was delayed due to covid and she now probably will not live.

At what point does this ever have an end point?

The rest of the paragraph didn't change the sentiment of the part I quoted.

Your view on how well home schooling worked for secondary pupils is a privileged one.

@Thewiseoneincognito

Keeping an eye on me? That’s transferrance. You need to keep an insightful eye on yourself.

Yes I’ve worked with many old people who are in a terrible state in this country due to poor social care and it’s awful for them. I’ve seen it on the front line, but I’m presuming you don’t go out into the world to really see much of anything.

Lengthening of life does not always mean a better quality of life.

@Chillychangchoo yes I’ll be watching your posts- because you have a callous streak that’s very ‘off’.

With all due respect I come on here infrequently now (because I work, have a life and don’t think of covid 24/7). It’s really quite rich someone like you has noticed something “off” when your obsession with covid and lack of control is really quite evident and pathological.

I am not going to engage with you any further. I reiterate what I said further up the thread. You need help.

@Chillychangchoo I've just scanned back through and can't see where lockdown has been suggested. Accept I may have missed it.

I'm very happy to move forward with caution.

I have wear a mask in a supermarket and feel comfortable that most other people do.

I'm happy to eat outside, go inside places with air and masks like art galleries.

I'm happy to be in well ventilated rooms but what I'm not happy about is acting like every thing is normal... And shoving kids back into the school with guidance only

@putthetubeinthebin

The rest of the paragraph didn't change the sentiment of the part I quoted.

Your view on how well home schooling worked for secondary pupils is a privileged one.

@putthetubeinthebin yes it did. I said I was speaking from my experience alone and said other peoples experience would differ!! I said:

..I don't want schools to close at all, children have already had 2 years of disrupted education

Totally agree there are so many children for whom school is a lifeline. The reason free school dinners are given to everyone in KS1 was the aftermath of a child who was starved to death at home.

I was stressing that if crisis point occurs again this winter - which is looking increasing likely - primary aged children cannot be properly educated with a 1hr daily lesson remotely. I assume you don't diagree with that?

Our school is totally back to normal. Staff meetings with 120+ of us in small hall with no windows open. No bubbles, masks, distancing. I'm just fatalistic now and if I catch it I will hopefully be ok. Can't see us staying open long though.

No I don't disagree with that. Youve misquoted your own self though as after saying you dont want schools to close at all you said "but..." and you do in fact want schools to close. It wouldn't be your first choice, but under the circumstances you think it's okay because secondary kids will largely be fine. I disagree.

@mumsneedwine

Our school is totally back to normal. Staff meetings with 120+ of us in small hall with no windows open. No bubbles, masks, distancing. I'm just fatalistic now and if I catch it I will hopefully be ok. Can't see us staying open long though.

120 staff?

@putthetubeinthebin so you are now telling me that I want schools to close! Just for the record I don't, for a whole host of reasons. Which is why I hope the Government get a handle on this situation before the NHS hits crisis again but with the people on ventilators steadily rising the 'irreversable' end to lockdowns is looking precarious.

Not going to school also benefitted many dc as well, it's not black and white situation.

@justasking111 is that a surprise ? We have well over 120 staff ! Teachers alone is 100 and there are lots and lots of support staff in schools - TAs, office, site, IT etc. We have almost 2,000 students.

@UrgentHelpforFriend

Not going to school also benefitted many dc as well, it's not black and white situation.

You're thinking of mental health now??

[quote Chillychangchoo]@Babamamananarama

I’m sorry to hear about your diagnosis however even without covid in this world you were already incredibly vulnerable to many viruses which is incredibly shit for you, however I still stand by what I said in that we should absolutely not lockdown again and there are people refusing vaccines taking up beds who do not fit your criteria.

Do you think children’s education should be ruined for people who are clinically vulnerable then? Do we save them and not kids? What about the mental health of the nation? Does that not matter? My friends cancer treatment was delayed due to covid and she now probably will not live.

At what point does this ever have an end point?[/quote]
My friends cancer treatment was delayed due to covid and she now probably will not live.

That is awful and I'm so sorry about your friend. Doesn't it make you think though that it would be better if we could keep covid rates at some kind of steady, not too high level, in as many ways as possible that don't disrupt schooling or cause financial problems? The biggest problem for hospitals hasn't been official rules to do with covid, but covid itself. If there's too much of it circulating, hospital treatment can't happen (not safe for vulnerable patients) or gets disrupted because there are too many covid patients taking up space or staff are ill. If it gets disrupted too much, governments have no choice but to go for nuclear options like emergency lockdowns (which I'm guessing would only be short circuit breaker ones now, but which we're not completely safe from even now).

I don't understand why so many people who hate lockdowns are also opposed to all the middle ground smaller scale interventions that might not reduce cases by much, but might collectively suppress them by just enough to stop full lockdowns ever being needed again. It's very counter intuitive.

@sretcarahceromro3ebtsum completely agree. Mitigation measures are what's going to prevent lockdown. Household contacts not isolating and packing whole schools into school halls for assembly is what's going to cause a lockdown, whether officially or not.

@sretcarahceromro3ebtsum

Whilst I fully accept what you’re saying, I don’t think there are “middle ground interventions” that aren’t incredibly disruptive to people’s lives.

Remote learning being one of them is not feasible for reasons that have been discussed many times on Mumsnet, but always fall on deaf and often privileged ears. The middle ground interventions heavily disadvantage the already disadvantaged, and are encouraged by people with lots of space at home and the luxuries of working from home etc. Also these interventions would need to be implemented long term, which again isn’t viable.

[quote RumblyMumbly]@putthetubeinthebin so you are now telling me that I want schools to close! Just for the record I don't, for a whole host of reasons. Which is why I hope the Government get a handle on this situation before the NHS hits crisis again but with the people on ventilators steadily rising the 'irreversable' end to lockdowns is looking precarious.[/quote]
Then I apologise as I seem to have lost the ability to read and interpret a simple couple of paragraphs of text.

[quote Chillychangchoo]@sretcarahceromro3ebtsum

Whilst I fully accept what you’re saying, I don’t think there are “middle ground interventions” that aren’t incredibly disruptive to people’s lives.

Remote learning being one of them is not feasible for reasons that have been discussed many times on Mumsnet, but always fall on deaf and often privileged ears. The middle ground interventions heavily disadvantage the already disadvantaged, and are encouraged by people with lots of space at home and the luxuries of working from home etc. Also these interventions would need to be implemented long term, which again isn’t viable.[/quote]
I’m surprised remote learning is still rearing up on here given the harms and downsides.