If the government were honest about the next 4 months

[RuleWithAWoodenFoot]

They'd say that children are probably going to catch covid, there is nothing to stop this happening. Lots of families will probably catch it off their children, school staff will probably catch it off children too.

Education is going to be disrupted again if the above happens. No way around it. But it could be 'over' by November when the bad weather kicks in and older folk start getting ill as per usual circumstances. At that point booster vaccs could start.

It's definitely 'an approach', but not telling people that this is the plan is unfair. Do you think people have realised this yet? Or are the Emperor's new clothes still in view?

Where I am there are no mitigations happening at all. It's like covid has gone.

Sonnet for Spring, that's because there is no requirement for them by the government. Do you not see most people want normality?

Of course I do. I want normality too. However, it's short sighted. I really don't want schools to go online again but it feels like that is a real possibility in the coming winter. It could have been prevented if we had accepted that we are not living the same life we all has before covid. We are now living with covid unfortunately.

@SonnetForSpring

Of course I do. I want normality too. However, it's short sighted. I really don't want schools to go online again but it feels like that is a real possibility in the coming winter. It could have been prevented if we had accepted that we are not living the same life we all has before covid. We are now living with covid unfortunately.

I feel the same. I dislike home schooling. I was happy before so called freedom day happened. The shops, school's , hospitality was open.. I don't mind the hand gel, social distancing or masks if allowed businesses and places to stay open.. My sons primary had zero cases sept to start June. Then so many it was shocking. Same with eldest senior school once masks went the cases started to climb resulting in 2 year groups being shut down before end of term. Surly this and regular testing vis small price to pay for our freedom.

Other European countries kept some measures which i assume is why they have lower cases..
They also vaccinating teens
Improving ventilation in schools.

@puppeteer

As several other posters have already said, any half or even full assed attempt to limit spread will just drag things out. I’d rather get it over with now than have a (nother) shitty winter term, Xmas and New Year.

^
This.

I supported restrictions when there was a realistic hope they would do achieve something more than dragging things out. For instance, when vaccines were imminent last winter it made sense to suppress the virus so it could be rolled out and 10,000s if not 100,000s of lives were saved.

But now? Insisting on the continuation of masks and isolation of contacts in schools, and half-baked measures such as calls to stop festivals whilst letting smaller gatherings continue is as futile as a kid trying to stop the incoming tide with a dam. built with their bucket and spade.

My sons primary had zero cases sept to start June. Then so many it was shocking.
Same with eldest senior school once masks went the cases started to climb resulting in 2 year groups being shut down before end of term. Surly this and regular testing vis small price to pay for our freedom.

I'm guessing the reason your child's school's year groups were shut down was down to a combination of mass testing and the requirement to isolate contacts, not because there were so many sick pupils
and teachers that they couldn't continue. It's a case of the "cure" being worse than the "disease". The disruption wasn't due to Covid itself, but rather our response to it.

Had it been treated as flu (and yes I appreciate Covid isn't flu and is a lot more deadly, but that was pre-vaccine and when the country had no natural immunity to it) a few kids would have been off sick, and you may have had some classes disrupted where teachers were off, and that would have been that.

....but you'd now be starting the new term with a solid base of natural immunity within the school population as a buffer against further disruption, and able to move forward far more freely this term. The suppression efforts which closed year groups simply means the spectre of Covid will loom over the school for longer.

"I'm guessing the reason your child's school's year groups were shut down was down to a combination of mass testing and the requirement to isolate contacts, not because there were so many sick pupils
and teachers that they couldn't continue. It's a case of the "cure" being worse than the "disease"

I'm guessing you have no direct experience of covid outbreaks in schools especially when precautions are not implemented properly.

A Wild type covid outbreak lead to one third of the staff catching covid within a 2 week period and 5 or 6 pupil cases a day. If we hadn't have had 2 year groups wfh we have had to close. When the head got covid and we got told to lie to the kids and say "she was in tomorrow" and it wasn't mentioned in her weekly letter that someone else wrote. This in a school with 900 pupils and 60 odd teachers

We had another wave of delta in July and the record was 12 positive pupil cases over a weekend. The school was probably less disrupted this time as by then three quarters had had positive tests and no one came down with it again only double jabbed staff who'd escaped wave 2.

If a school hasn't really had many cases to date, it could be disrupted. Like I said earlier in the thread there's should be multiple isolations for the same children so it shouldn't be as bad as last year.

Why are we worried about kids getting Covid as Cheyenne don't get very ill if all adults in the U.K. who want to be jabbed have been jabbed? Genuine question not a snarky one.

Cheyenne?? I meant 'they'

"Why are we worried about kids getting Covid as Cheyenne don't get very ill if all adults in the U.K. who want to be jabbed have been jabbed?"

Funny how last year kids missing school/ wearing masks in corridors etc was so harmful it justified putting school staff and vulnerable relations at risk but now it doesn't matter enough to justify them getting a jab with ridiculously small complications risks.

www.wired.co.uk/article/covid-19-vaccination-children

Article on the pros & cons of vaccinating children here

This.

I supported restrictions when there was a realistic hope they would do achieve something more than dragging things out. For instance, when vaccines were imminent last winter it made sense to suppress the virus so it could be rolled out and 10,000s if not 100,000s of lives were saved.

But now? Insisting on the continuation of masks and isolation of contacts in schools, and half-baked measures such as calls to stop festivals whilst letting smaller gatherings continue is as futile as a kid trying to stop the incoming tide with a dam. built with their bucket and spade.

Yes.

I'm not that arsed about continuing masks in secondary and places like supermarkets, wouldn't object to the rule being reintroduced provided it was just masks. But people need to not delude themselves about what it could actually do. Delta is well and truly seeded now.

The children were off school because they had to isolate sick or not sick. Most of them were not sick.

[quote Warhertisuff]@puppeteer

As several other posters have already said, any half or even full assed attempt to limit spread will just drag things out. I’d rather get it over with now than have a (nother) shitty winter term, Xmas and New Year.

^
This.

I supported restrictions when there was a realistic hope they would do achieve something more than dragging things out. For instance, when vaccines were imminent last winter it made sense to suppress the virus so it could be rolled out and 10,000s if not 100,000s of lives were saved.

But now? Insisting on the continuation of masks and isolation of contacts in schools, and half-baked measures such as calls to stop festivals whilst letting smaller gatherings continue is as futile as a kid trying to stop the incoming tide with a dam. built with their bucket and spade. [/quote]
I don’t entirely disagree but I can’t ignore the fact that even with current vaccinations there is an impact on hospital resources but apparently no plan on how that’s going to be absorbed into current capacity or how capacity is going to be expanded long term to deal with significant numbers of covid cases requiring hospital treatment. Add to that massive backlogs in a system that was already under strain in 2019 and we’re not in a position with a lot of wiggle room.

From where I’m sitting I have a concern about me and mine catching covid itself but a slightly larger concern is if this is it in so far as what that means for wider healthcare. My DP is now a year overdue a cardiology appointment and on a waiting list with no etd privately for a nerve operation. If this is living with covid then it needs spelling out that we all need to massively adjust our expectations of healthcare, state provided and private, from this point onwards.

Measures like masks, distancing and household isolations may only provide limited dampening of the infection rate but I would argue that’s what’s needed as the current plan is that covid will be present in the community at current rates or higher over traditional periods of high demand. Surely the aim is still not to overwhelm healthcare services, so if there’s no realistic move to expand services (which would take time to staff given the global demand for medical skills) then the only other option is to stem the rate of infection.

I think the government were banking on a sterilising vaccine; that’s not what we’ve got although we’ve got a decent outcome from what we do have.

As several other posters have already said, any half or even full assed attempt to limit spread will just drag things out. I’d rather get it over with now than have a (nother) shitty winter term, Xmas and New Year.
Letting it spread with huge numbers won't 'get it over'; it's not going away. We have been told that herd immunity isn't possible.

Cornetto ninja, no we don't need to adjust our expectations of health care, what a ludicrous comment. How ironic when you wanted testing en masse still. So it's OK to use resources for covid, but tighten the belts when it comes to other diseases? No way.

Lonely planet, we know its not going away. There's just no point prolonging it anymore. We have to get on.

That a really good clarification to make.

Certainly I don’t expect it’ll disappear.

But better to get any big wave over now before the winter sets in proper.

That way, hopefully, and this is what modelling predicts, future waves will be less.

We have to get on

At what cost? We are going into the cooler months. More people will be ill generally because that’s life. Hospitals already at capacity - and some. Letting the virus run rife in our communities will impact NHS staff who will be off sick, further reducing capacity when it can least be accommodated. Hospital admissions continue to rise, as do deaths. It’s not hard to see that there will be a tipping point and we’re back to lockdowns. Use basic mitigation’s in schools - masks, bubbles, ensure isolation, continue testing, and yes it will slow down the spread and yes it will have a steady rather than over whelming impact on services. And education might keep going.

You’re completely missing my point @Peteycat (unsurprisingly). I’m don’t want anything of the sort, I’m commenting on what’s already actually happening. Wants don’t come in to it when there is a real time demand on services in existence.

Covid is here and staying do you think that the NHS can just absorb the workload caused by it without expansion or changes in working practices longer term? What is your comment on how we manage the extra demand caused by covid long term then?

This is what this thread was started on the premise of (despite your determination to derail with white knighting and insincere questioning) - why isn’t this being spelled out clearly when it’s obvious what is currently happening?

@Getawaywithit lockdowns are not a long term solution. You can't just trot them out so causally. If we lockdown this winter when everyone is recently vaccinated, there is no hope for the next few years.

Getawaywithit, education won't keep going if healthy kids who test positive and who have no symptoms are repeatedly sent home. That is is mass disruption.

This is what this thread was started on the premise of (despite your determination to derail with white knighting and insincere questioning) - why isn’t this being spelled out clearly when it’s obvious what is currently happening

If you are going to continue to be rude to me just do one. I'll chat to the other posters.

That's to you cornetto ninja.

If kids test positive they are NOT healthy, surely? And of course they should be sent home.