NZ back into lockdown.

[Malin52]

1 case in the community. All of NZ back into lockdown Level 4 because no link to border found.

Hard and fast.

I am pretty sure boosters are still planned for NHS workers - we had a all staff briefing that was taking about it a couple of weeks ago and I haven't heard anything different.
I happen to be on the AZ trial and actually had my 365 day appt yesterday to check for anti bodies etc. Maybe JCVI are waiting for the year anniversary data of the earlier vaccines before deciding about boosters generally?
It seems a very lively discussion on Covid Twitter

I also had no problems with regards synching my two doses with the NHS app - the clinical team sent a letter to us all with the details and to our GP's who entered the info and it appeared on the app. I don't know anyone who has had any problems but I totally agree that those on later trials have had admin issues. It must be infuriating to be on a trial for a vaccine that has not been approved by the UK or EU for example. That scenario honestly didn't even occur to me when I volunteered.
I read the other day that one trial here in the UK (maybe Novovax?) has run out of UK volunteers and is planning to move to NZ but I am not sure why anyone in NZ would now volunteer when you have actual vaccines available. It's a completely different risk/ reward to April 20.

I wouldn't be allowed into Austria on their rules (assuming I was planning to go) as my last jab was 365 days ago!

It's interesting that Queensland has only been mentioned once in this thread. We had one case of delta which was linked to schools, hospitals and uni. We went into lockdown for a few days while contact tracing went into overdrive. Thousands of people were quarantining at home but community transmission was controlled and we came out of lockdown. Most of our cases have been in the Indooroopilly cluster already in quarantine.
Life's going on as normal although our borders slammed shut this morning to other states as we don't have the hotel quarantine capacity.
We know delta will come here but there's a drive to get people vaccinated as quickly and as possible and we should have Moderna in addition to Astra Zeneca and Pfizer next month.

unherd.com/2021/08/new-zealands-zero-Covid-delusion/

This is an interesting article saying that NZ lacks an exit strategy.

RedToothBrush

Your posts are always brilliant on every subject, I truly wish you were running the country.

Ianrankinfan

Really interesting, shocked at how few ICU beds there are over there

I find the role of behavioural science in all this fascinating. In the case of NZ, they have realised that the fewer the cases, the greater the complacency (as the Unherd article notes) so people don’t rush to get the vaccine. I mean, I haven’t had an Ebola vaccine (if such a thing existed) because I do not fear Ebola at this moment living in the UK. Ironically you have to “let it rip” or at least let it sneak out a bit to give people a kick up the backside, but then that risks some people dying or becoming very ill, which then makes your policy look like a failure. Vexing.

@Clearlyunhinged

Ianrankinfan

Really interesting, shocked at how few ICU beds there are over there

Its not just the lack of ICU beds, its how far they are from some parts of the most rural population.

If you are living in a small village in the south island, you might be more isolated and less likely to get covid in the first place, but if you are unfortunate enough for you to reach your community and you need to go to hospital, it can be a very long way away.

We don't quite understand this in the UK.

The reality looks highly likely that anyone who has had lockdowns and restrictions no matter how high their vaccination rate is, that they will face some degree of 'exit wave' from those restrictions as people are exposed to the virus. That wasn't something we talked about before. The assumption about herd immunity and discussions around lifting of restriction have always had the assumption that once we were vaccinated cases would naturally decrease.

Its only now we are having discussions about cases remaining at at least a stable rate and the R staying at about R1 in the UK and discussions about waning immunity and how vaccines PLUS exposure in combination might be something we need to seriously consider to maintain immunity.

In fairness to NZ and how the number of ICU beds and lack of exit strategy is problematic, I'm not sure how that really differs from the UK even now either.

I believe we are still getting about 700 covid hospital admission a day (although there is some disagreement over this stat as it may be slightly misleading as apparently a lot of these admissions are actually for something else and then the patient tests positive rather than them being admitted solely for covid) in the UK. In the middle of Summer.

That really doesn't bode well for a couple of months time. And for that reason alone, anyone who rules out more restrictions being needed in the UK really isn't paying full attention.

The locks downs were so bad in Ireland that people were begging on their hands and knees for the vaccines and are now giving them to their children without any evidence that Covid is any more dangerous than a vaccine for that age group.
They would do anything to not go through that again.

@LovelaceBiggWither

It's interesting that Queensland has only been mentioned once in this thread. We had one case of delta which was linked to schools, hospitals and uni. We went into lockdown for a few days while contact tracing went into overdrive. Thousands of people were quarantining at home but community transmission was controlled and we came out of lockdown. Most of our cases have been in the Indooroopilly cluster already in quarantine. Life's going on as normal although our borders slammed shut this morning to other states as we don't have the hotel quarantine capacity. We know delta will come here but there's a drive to get people vaccinated as quickly and as possible and we should have Moderna in addition to Astra Zeneca and Pfizer next month.

I wouldn’t call having the military guarding your border, splitting up interstate families, and having your tourism sector on its knees normal. And Queensland’s vaccination rate (along with WA’s) is lagging behind the rest of the country, likely due to the zero Covid dogma there. No reason to vaccinate if you keep it out forever, except that you can’t and won’t.

I believe we are still getting about 700 covid hospital admission a day (although there is some disagreement over this stat as it may be slightly misleading as apparently a lot of these admissions are actually for something else and then the patient tests positive rather than them being admitted solely for covid) in the UK. In the middle of Summer.

What are the typical daily a&e admissions in the summer? And what are the assumed levels of covid in the country? It makes sense to me that a good number may be unaware of their covid status when they come in. If that's the case, what are actual number of cases of people presenting because of covid - surely this is the only figure that works as a litmus test for what is coming in the next few months. Where are they keeping that information?

I’m in South Australia with zero Covid cases and life is definitely not normal here.

We have mask laws for fucks sake. When going to a restaurant you have to wear a mask to enter, order and pay. You can then take your mask off when you sit down. Well you’re meant to have a drink of some kind but nobody takes notice of that. The poor staff have to wear masks all day. Some places I just don’t wear a mask but I still take part in the safety theatre to go into restaurants, cafes and small shops as not doing it isn’t fair on the staff who have no say in the madness. I mostly just don’t go shopping apart from groceries.

Nsw seems to have hospitals that are struggling. This will be a fraction of the cases they will have when they open up...

@bluetongue

I’m in South Australia with zero Covid cases and life is definitely not normal here.

We have mask laws for fucks sake. When going to a restaurant you have to wear a mask to enter, order and pay. You can then take your mask off when you sit down. Well you’re meant to have a drink of some kind but nobody takes notice of that. The poor staff have to wear masks all day. Some places I just don’t wear a mask but I still take part in the safety theatre to go into restaurants, cafes and small shops as not doing it isn’t fair on the staff who have no say in the madness. I mostly just don’t go shopping apart from groceries.

I just looked at your restrictions, there's still so many! What are they saying is reason with no covid? Is it to push vaccinations do you think?

Given low vaccination rates and covid in the country now, even with state border restrictions the SA restrictions look sensible despite zero cases. Why? Simply because there isn't much of a hope of locating patient 1 when it does move into the State. That means by the time its detected its already too late to do much. Those restrictions will limit the size of potential clusters before tighter restrictions are implemented in the event of a SA outbreak.

Its very sensible given the speed at which Delta spread.

Sucks to be living it, but until vaccine rates can be improved and zero covid is now impossible, it sounds sensible.

I guess I'm just surprised as WA is held up as most extreme, but we have nothing like that, the whole selling point of our border controls is we can live freely except for travel, although I think it's just Vic, ACT and NSW that are restricted right now, my friend's off to Tassie next week, and we're flying staff out to our Darwin facilities at moment with no quarantine requirements. I'm not sure on SA borders though, I know there's pretty much only one road in from WA, but maybe the others are more porous so harder to track and make sure people who need to are quarantining.

The NZ vaccine roll seems to be going well: rollout

Thing is Australia s approach is not because we are in love with restrictions. It is because we have been left vulnerable by an incompetent federal government which has not sorted out quarantine or done its job in procuring vaccines. We have about 25% of adults fully vaccinated. That is why we have closed borders and restrictions.

@bluetongue

I’m in South Australia with zero Covid cases and life is definitely not normal here.

We have mask laws for fucks sake. When going to a restaurant you have to wear a mask to enter, order and pay. You can then take your mask off when you sit down. Well you’re meant to have a drink of some kind but nobody takes notice of that. The poor staff have to wear masks all day. Some places I just don’t wear a mask but I still take part in the safety theatre to go into restaurants, cafes and small shops as not doing it isn’t fair on the staff who have no say in the madness. I mostly just don’t go shopping apart from groceries.

"Safety theatre"? If you're determined to think about medical safety measures like that, then nothing will get through to you, I guess. But just be glad you're in SA with zero Covid (no correlation, though?) and not NSW, like me, where I can't see my family and friends, go any further than 5km, can't go to a restaurant, and am desperately afraid for my extremely CEV sibling who lives in Western Sydney and can't be vaccinated.

I agree with Red, those restrictions might look ridiculous to you now but from where I am I'm NZ they look sensible. Wearing a mask is a small price to pay for being able to go out and socialise in a pandemic. We had no mask mandates here before this outbreak and that has definitely contributed to our high case numbers.

I do wonder whether developed countries which had an elimination policy like Australia and NZ will go mandatory vaccine for all/most aka including children.

Very unlikely to mandate vaccines for anyone except border workers and healthcare workers. NZ is not that heavy-handed when it comes to medical procedures. And it would likely be seen as counter-productive anyway, making more people resist vaccinations.

The restrictions look sensible for NZ from my standpoint too. Until vaxx rates are very high across adults and kids, with a vulnerable Maori and pacifika population, and with an R of 6, it makes sense to keep pursuing elimination.

@Sunnyfreezesushi

I do wonder whether developed countries which had an elimination policy like Australia and NZ will go mandatory vaccine for all/most aka including children.

We’re not quite in China’s league!

@Sunnyfreezesushi

I do wonder whether developed countries which had an elimination policy like Australia and NZ will go mandatory vaccine for all/most aka including children.

Already happening in Australia. No jab no job policy for workers in “areas of concern”. They can only return to work if they have the vaccine. The feds are saying it’s not mandatory and of course it’s your choice to either put food on the table or refuse and stay home. That’s your choice.