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NZ back into lockdown.

714 replies

Malin52 · 17/08/2021 09:00

1 case in the community. All of NZ back into lockdown Level 4 because no link to border found.

Hard and fast.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 20/08/2021 18:27

New world order i believe.

Bryonyshcmyony · 20/08/2021 18:33

Oh. You'd think they'd have taken climate change into account if they were trying to set up a NWO

Guineapigbridge · 20/08/2021 19:07

I find the dynamic interesting. Ashley is hailed with saving us all; Jacinda is blamed for the utter slowness of the vaccine roll out. They're both responsible for both...

PicsInRed · 20/08/2021 19:13

@Guineapigbridge

I find the dynamic interesting. Ashley is hailed with saving us all; Jacinda is blamed for the utter slowness of the vaccine roll out. They're both responsible for both...
Same reason people went easy on Whitty and hard on Johnson - one is a politician with the power to make the big calls, and the other is not.
RedToothBrush · 20/08/2021 23:29

I have to hand it to new zealanders.

I've seen several reports now of people queuing for 7 hours and even 9 hours for a test.

Thats dedication and enthusiasm and civic duty.

Its genuinely commendable.

However I'm not sure how long thats going to last, and im minded to think of how in the uk there were certain groups who didn't get tested for economic and social reasons. Somehow, even if theres, financial support available which isn't in the uk i cant imagine a single mother with small kids and a couple of part time jobs doing the same. The virus feeds on poverty so there's a whole of questions there. Once its into the most deprieved parts of the community, you start to get more issues as its harder to pin down at speed.

And time is the one thing in short supply.

bluetongue · 20/08/2021 23:52

@sashagabadon

I don’t want to derail the thread but the colonial argument is back to front. Surely it’s the former Europeans living in NZ now that are the colonists not those living in the U.K.? So my aunt (and her subsequent children) who emigrated to NZ in the 1950’s is more responsible for the disadvantages Maori face now than my mother (and me) who have never lived there. It’s up to NZ themselves if they want to become a republic and remove the Queen as head of state, change the NZ flag, restructure Royal institutions without the Queen etc There are signs that this is happening though such as slowly changing the name New Zealand to Aotearoa which I think is great. So moving to a more Maori / Asia centred country and away from looking towards the U.K./ europe. NZ newsites do probably follow the U.K. too much but that’s not the fault of the U.K. It’s the fault of NZ websites/ journalists. NZ websites are full of BBC stories and telegraph/ times and US too etc maybe a cost thing. It’s an interesting discussion for sure but definitely one ultimately for NZ to have themselves. I can certainly agree that having another countries Queen as your head of state ( even if she has no actual power and never interferes ) is strange when you think about it so I completely understand why many in NZ want to change it .
What if my ancestors who moved to Australia in the 1850’s from England were desperate poor farmers? Are they included as racist colonists exploiting the indigenous populations or were they just people trying to give their family a better life? I hardly think that the morals of their move was upmost on their mind when they boarded a crowded ship for weeks on a gamble to make a better life.

Plenty of the people making money from the British Empire stayed in the UK anyway so your argument doesn’t stand.

Therehavetobeadjustments · 21/08/2021 08:51

I've seen several reports now of people queuing for 7 hours and even 9 hours for a test.

Crikey, why so long?

FourTeaFallOut · 21/08/2021 09:11

Yes, there are a lot of push - pull factors in occupying somebody else's land. But I can assure you that the vast majority of people in the UK - and I would guess a significant proportion of Brits who are being accused of having a view on the emerging covid situation in NZ through a colonisers lens, were unlikely to be among the ruling classes who benefitted from this practice.

But this is getting silly now. Can we not just have this discussion on covid without having to trace our family history to show we are not talking in bad faith?

I see the South Island remains unaffected by community cases so far, so that's good. Perhaps this will mitigate some of the financial impact on the country if they can operate under less oppressive restrictions?

Terhou · 21/08/2021 09:35

The reason given is simply that there are too many people trying to get spaces! Many spaces have been taken with people returning from the Olympics, people going to an Expo in Dubai and other such things.

Do people actually accept that excuse? Surely what it actually is is an admission that the government badly underestimated demand and has failed to adjust its arrangements to meet that demand. Returns from the Olympics and the Expo don't account for the fact that quarantine spaces are booked up till January. That length of queue indicates that they are underperforming badly. When it comes to citizens having to risk overstaying on visas and losing jobs if they just want to do something like attend a parent's funeral, the government surely needs to step up.

RedToothBrush · 21/08/2021 10:10

@Therehavetobeadjustments

I've seen several reports now of people queuing for 7 hours and even 9 hours for a test.

Crikey, why so long?

There were repirts of 'technical difficulties' which i think translates into not having available equipment at some sites. But overall it sounds like sheer numbers trying to get tested in certain places. It sounds like areas where they have identified a site of interest, they are just being overwhelmed at testing centres.

Ive just checked the latest and they are saying theyve picked up covid in the wastewater in Warkworth which is a town just outside Auckland. And theyve added more testing facilities there now, but from whats been said it doesn't look like they've picked up many cases there yet. I think that gives something of an indication of how they are still playing catch up on identifying where its spread from known cases.

Its now up to 50 cases and over 5000 close contacts.

Arden also said she hoped people were santising properly at portaloos at testing centres which i found slightly eyebrow raising. The idea of portaloos at testing sites and 7 hour queues is one i find a little confusing for a virus we know is airborne and can be transmitted through the fumes of human waste. That does strike me as a potential recipe for problems with a zero covid policy. Whilst not needing to pre-book a test makes sense to speed up the process / encourage more people to come forward, that only makes sense in these early stages if you ensure you don't make testing centres potential exposure points too.

So far it sounds like theyve linked all the cases back to the cluster. Thats probably where you should expect it to be for all the preparation NZ have had. I think looking back to the uk they said the first 100 cases were the most crucial. Once you get past that figure, the numbers start to be much more difficult in terms of contact tracing and case load. I think once NZ hits that point it could start to be more problematic.

They were saying that they had found that contact tracers had found it hard to get full information from positive tests about where they had been because they had been extremely stressed and that had caused delays. This was leading to them using details from card transactions to jog memories.

The problem with all this is that time is crucial and it is easy to fall further and further behind chasing contact points. Obviously once the lockdown effect kicks in that should reduce potential contact points anyway, but all these delays do mean that a lock down in Auckland at least is likely to be at least a month now i suspect.

I do think this stage is fascinating to watch as it really does show the difficulty of the task even with preparation and testing available as a case study. It does do a lot to show just how powerless the uk was in the early stages of the pandemic and once things has taken off, even with political mistakes, it was probably something that no one had a realistic chance of preventing given our lack of knowledge. The uk could have done better early one, but i think this gives an idea that notions that we could have done significantly better are unrealistic.

PicsInRed · 21/08/2021 10:20

The uk could have done better early one, but i think this gives an idea that notions that we could have done significantly better are unrealistic.

Agreed, though I still find it unforgivable that we didn't stops flights from hot zones immediately. Unforgivable.

Bryonyshcmyony · 21/08/2021 10:22

@PicsInRed

The uk could have done better early one, but i think this gives an idea that notions that we could have done significantly better are unrealistic.

Agreed, though I still find it unforgivable that we didn't stops flights from hot zones immediately. Unforgivable.

I agree but I think we would have done had we known there would be a quick and effective vaccine
FourTeaFallOut · 21/08/2021 10:23

Agreed, though I still find it unforgivable that we didn't stops flights from hot zones immediately. Unforgivable.

Agreed. The WHO was saying that there was no point in closing borders at the beginning of the pandemic. It made it harder for opposing voices to hold the government to account for what was plainly a common sense decision.

Wakeupin2022 · 21/08/2021 10:26

Agreed, though I still find it unforgivable that we didn't stops flights from hot zones immediately. Unforgivable.

I did think it wrong initially, especially with India / Delta. That was really frustrating as I couldn't see my family for so long (other nation in UK). But in hindsight I think we have been lucky to experience Delta so early on and also had a high number of cases over summer months. That may help us get through the winter which is going to be very hard.

sashagabadon · 21/08/2021 10:38

I think the point about vaccines is very true. If we’d known for 100% sure that we’d have a working, safe, effective vaccine by December 2020 we could have made different decisions with everyone on board. But if you remember Valance and Whitty were very much of the view that it could take 2 years or longer.
So if we now accept (?) that suppression is actually the better long term strategy in the absence of vaccines (and elimination is a better strategy if we are sure vaccines will come) then those early decisions make more sense.
Although completely agree re. Flights from wuhan last year and India this year.
As it turns out anyway we do have effective vaccines but they do not appear to completely stop transmission so that tips best strategy back to suppression again imo.
There seems to be some talk now that natural immunity is just as good as vaccine immunity which was heresy not that long ago . If true suppression is again the better strategy. I remember last year pre vaccine it was estimated London had 30% antibodies. Obviously many of those have now had the vaccine too but say 5% haven’t. That’s 5% to add to our baseline vaccine produced immunity.

L1ttleSeahorse · 21/08/2021 10:45

Is that 30% as in 30% have had covid?!

Bryonyshcmyony · 21/08/2021 10:51

@L1ttleSeahorse

Is that 30% as in 30% have had covid?!
Yes. I don't know many people who haven't had it now.
sashagabadon · 21/08/2021 10:58

Yes. I’m talking about London specifically not the U.K. it was about 30% antibodies pre vaccines. There was (very premature) talk back last September that London had even reached herd immunity by natural infection alone.
Same survey now show U.K. as a whole with well over 90% , this now includes majority vaccine antibodies.

Tuppity · 21/08/2021 10:59

It will be interesting to see if they can eliminate Covid again through lockdowns. I suspect the delta variant is so much more contagious that the original Covid variant that this may not be possible unfortunately

FourTeaFallOut · 21/08/2021 11:04

I'm not sure if the rest of the UK is that far behind. It was 15% in January but obviously that was eons ago in covid time.

sashagabadon · 21/08/2021 11:09

Yes certainly the Covid hot spots seemed to move northwards from London so Birmingham/ Manchester etc no doubt caught up!

RedToothBrush · 21/08/2021 11:31

@FourTeaFallOut

Agreed, though I still find it unforgivable that we didn't stops flights from hot zones immediately. Unforgivable.

Agreed. The WHO was saying that there was no point in closing borders at the beginning of the pandemic. It made it harder for opposing voices to hold the government to account for what was plainly a common sense decision.

Worth pointing out that most cases in the uk came from a strain that appears to have come from Italy not China.

The earliest cases look to have possibly been in the UK in November 2019 too. Even if that had been December thats still before even WHO had been alerted.

It may have given us more time, but we still wouldn't have got a vaccination any earlier.

sashagabadon · 21/08/2021 11:54

There is an argument that elimination actually slows down vaccines in that you need it circulating in the community to test them. Hence why AZ was slowed down phase 3 last summer as Covid was too low in the U.K. and trials had to move to South Africa and Brazil. I remember Sarah Gilbert making the point in an interview that she was one of the only people in the U.K. that was not happy with the success of the U.K lockdown as it stopped trial participants catching Covid and her team getting the results. She was talking tongue in cheek but the point she was making was interesting and hadn’t occurred to me before. You can’t test vaccines in elimination countries so they take much longer. It’s certainly an irony ( or a paradox, not sure!)
Challenge trials are one solution but they are tiny and only ethically for healthy adults. Not children or the elderly or sick.

PicsInRed · 21/08/2021 12:59

It may have given us more time

That was exactly what we needed, time.

Ineptitude stole time.

RedToothBrush · 21/08/2021 16:54

@PicsInRed

It may have given us more time

That was exactly what we needed, time.

Ineptitude stole time.

We'd have got maybe a month I think. Six weeks tops. Not much more than that. And we still didn't have the testing/PPE until much later than that. And even then I think it would have taken off at speed, as we'd have felt 'safe' and probably locked down later anyway as a result.

And there'd have been massive outcry over it being an overreaction, so I could well have thought we'd have had protests etc for that reason.