Will this level of cases now just be acceptable?

[Tuba437]

Just having a think to myself. We're now at around 30k cases a day in general. The 7 day average daily deaths is about 89 (this was for around 45-50k cases a day). We can assume that I a month or so deaths will be at around 60 a day.

Over a year that works out at about 21k worth of deaths. Will this just be the acceptable number. We know the vaccine doesn't stop the spread so I highly doubt were ever just going to get down to sub 5k cases a day again.

21k is considered a very mild flu death rate for the year. We have a new virus around now so more deaths a year are going to be a thing whether we like it or not.

I also think red list countries should only be for countries with worrying variants. If I don't have to isolate if my wife tests positive (just daily testing) then why on earth would I have to spend 1500 on a government hotel to quarantine as I've been to a country with a lower covid rate than us?

Sorry about the rant.

@MarshaBradyo

I think it’s not neutral language that’s the issue.

None of us need any value placed on our behaviour anymore - it’s actually what I appreciate most now.

I think that is wishful thinking when our decisions and behaviour inevitably affect other people's lives.

@TheKeatingFive

But we do have to be careful when we're casually deciding who is ok to die.

Young people do, sadly die, from all kinds of causes, many of which we could do more to prevent.

Covid isn’t unusual in that regard.

OK. But why wouldn't we do more to help prevent those causes, rather than less to help prevent this cause? I don't see what your point is?

It IS sad that my friend's sister died. It is also sad that my friend died of cancer at the age of 24 (this was more than a decade ago). I've fundraised for cancer charities. I've tried to take care of myself and look out for signs of cancer (one of the reasons I'm trying to lose weight, which piled on as the result of another illness). And if cancer was an airborne disease, I'd expect to have to make some adjustments to my lifestyle there too, so that I didn't catch it or spread it.

Why were you happy to eat out, gazebo or no gazebo, knowing that the people making your food for you were still producing it indoors in a busy restaurant kitchen?

Are you suggesting we shut down all of catering completely?

That seems a bit inconsistent, my friend.

Re glasses. Well, well done you! You can do it with a mask. What about young people, visually impaired people. What about older people unsteady on their feet?? It's very hard for some people. Just because you are OK with it doesn't mean everyone else is. Oh, to see the world like you do. Must be lovely through rose tinted glasses. Well, thankfully I'm real. See things from other points of view. Mainly being the vulnerable.

Really, really despair with some attitudes.

Some can't with a mask, steamed up glasses and being anxious causes them to be upset, stressed and at risk from falling or not knowing surroundings.

OK. But why wouldn't we do more to help prevent those causes, rather than less to help prevent this cause?

You tell me.

If you scroll much earlier in the thread you’ll see many suggestions for how we could put a serious dent in cancer deaths and there was little interest in pursuing any of them, as far as I can see, including from those who are advocates for strong measures against covid.

But we ignore basic human care and other issues don't we. Because you want to sit in a gazebo safely.

@Peteycat

Re glasses. Well, well done you! You can do it with a mask. What about young people, visually impaired people. What about older people unsteady on their feet?? It's very hard for some people. Just because you are OK with it doesn't mean everyone else is. Oh, to see the world like you do. Must be lovely through rose tinted glasses. Well, thankfully I'm real. See things from other points of view. Mainly being the vulnerable.

Really, really despair with some attitudes.

The older people I see are the ones most careful to wear masks.

Lovely to be you, not seeing how masks make them feel safer? (to reverse the rhetoric)

Of course people with exemptions never had to wear them, and I generally assume there maybe an exemption for the other person. While wearing, if in a crowded indoor space, my mask.

@CryingAtTheDiscotheque

Because I consider the risk of 'infecting people' to be low enough to be worth taking.

Well at least you acknowledge that your decisions inevitably involve a risk to others. Do you also acknowledge that other people's assessment of the magnitude of the risk that you pose to them may differ?

Have you never done anything, ever, that could potentially pose a theoretical risk to undetermined 'others'?

I doubt it.

And I and others have repeatedly said that we don't care if others make different risk assessments. In fact that's what some of us have been calling for for some time. So long as they don't impose their personal judgements on others, that's fine.

@TheKeatingFive

OK. But why wouldn't we do more to help prevent those causes, rather than less to help prevent this cause?

You tell me.

If you scroll much earlier in the thread you’ll see many suggestions for how we could put a serious dent in cancer deaths and there was little interest in pursuing any of them, as far as I can see, including from those who are advocates for strong measures against covid.

It's the difference between an acute health emergency and a chronic major problem.

You can read up about the different public health approaches if you like?

Have you never done anything, ever, that could potentially pose a theoretical risk to undetermined 'others'?

I doubt it.

Everyone who’s ever driven a car for example poses a theoretical risk to others.

@Peteycat

But we ignore basic human care and other issues don't we. Because you want to sit in a gazebo safely.

bit of a non-sequitur, if it's worth pointing that out

It's the difference between an acute health emergency and a chronic major problem.

But why wouldn’t we save lives if we can? Why would we let ourselves off on technicalities?

@herecomesthsun

So this is a discussion board on which it is permissible to consider the broader picture?

I'm not actually judging people morally you know, just trying to discuss useful ways forwards. Using, I think, fairly non judgemental language.

I'm sorry if I seem to have hit a nerve, guys.

Because your behaviour has been highly disengenuous.

Firstly, oh we should 'keep masks'. But wait, we should 'keep' social distancing too.

Then, everyone is free to make their own choices. But a few posts after, those of us who dine in riverside gazebos Care About Others. Those who make different choices aren't caring and kind like us.

It's the dishonesty of your posting style that's annoying people, not your personal choices.

@TheKeatingFive

Have you never done anything, ever, that could potentially pose a theoretical risk to undetermined 'others'?

I doubt it.

Everyone who’s ever driven a car for example poses a theoretical risk to others.

I don't drive. I mostly get around by bike.

Do I get to feel smug and lecture others about being happy to put others at risk due to their selfish choices?

@TheKeatingFive,

'Everyone who’s ever driven a car for example poses a theoretical risk to others.'

That is a good example, actually. We accept that cars add a lot to people's lives, but also pose a risk to others, so car driving is quite highly regulated and policed.

We have speed limits, red lights, do not allow people to drink drive, and force them to maintain their cars and their cars to take a test every single year.

If someone said 'I just want to live, drive my car at 120MPH after a few drinks, why are you judging me?'-you would consider them bonkers!

In the same way, now we have COVID, we have to regulate other behaviours which we have never had to previously regulate. Of course it is all a massive compromise, in the same way as we don't set the speeding limit at 10MPH and the drink driving limit at zero. We are currently negotiating that compromise point, how much life vs what kind of precautions.

@TheKeatingFive

It's the difference between an acute health emergency and a chronic major problem.

But why wouldn’t we save lives if we can? Why would we let ourselves off on technicalities?

So the approach to a new illness that is likely to overwhelm services is different to the approach to an older chronic illness where the situation is more stable (that is also true for an individual person).

If we could implement a vaccine for cancer we would, by the way.

And the difference between "acute" and "chronic" is not a technicality, if that's what you mean.

You should read some more about that.

I think that is wishful thinking when our decisions and behaviour inevitably affect other people's lives.

Actually it’s not because when I go to a theatre / party / restaurant etc I know others feel the same otherwise they wouldn’t be there. So it’s perfectly possible to not have mn type judgement reflected in daily life.

However, in the same way as you might judge a litter lout, people will judge COVID louts.

No this will be your interpretation. Using this unpleasant term doesn’t reflect well on anyone who uses it but not everyone does as again they would behave as you are.

Also I’d dial back on that kind of insult as it’s very easy to go in the other direction. I genuinely don’t care if people sit outside all year long, but if you think you can judge you will probably get similar back.

And I and others have repeatedly said that we don't care if others make different risk assessments. In fact that's what some of us have been calling for for some time. So long as they don't impose their personal judgements on others, that's fine.

But they will "impose" (whatever that means) their personal judgments won't they, if they think that you've under assessed, or chosen to ignore, the risk that you pose to them? I mean, surely that is obvious?

@IcedPurple

Firstly, oh we should 'keep masks'.

yes good idea

But wait, we should 'keep' social distancing too.

Since someone asked, also a good idea, if at all possible

Then, everyone is free to make their own choices.

well, of course, they always were

But a few posts after, those of us who dine in riverside gazebos Care About Others.

your capitals. Just one example of the sort of choices individuals and businesses can make

Those who make different choices aren't caring and kind like us.

your interpretation, I didn't say that.

It's the dishonesty of your posting style that's annoying people, not your personal choices.

I see no dishonesty. We are all free. We can make choices which impact people in different ways. Choices can be more or less sensible, like choosing to drive when tired for example, and these choices can impact on other people as well.

Is it dishonest to rewrite what someone else has written?

Iced Purple well said. The pretence of the posters who care, oh so very much more than we do is just a way for them to attack, belittle and feel better than others. Well, I know who I am.

I'm not just talking about the elderly with glasses BTW. Please listen if you are going to comment.

when I go to a theatre / party / restaurant etc I know others feel the same otherwise they wouldn’t be there

I doubt very much that everyone in the theatre etc has identical views about the level of risk. And what about eg commuter transport, shops? Honestly I think you are kidding yourself.

You are dishonest, because you say oh just masks, ohh actually and social distancing. Well I'm afraid most people have had enough now so maybe get some ear plugs.

@CryingAtTheDiscotheque

when I go to a theatre / party / restaurant etc I know others feel the same otherwise they wouldn’t be there

I doubt very much that everyone in the theatre etc has identical views about the level of risk. And what about eg commuter transport, shops? Honestly I think you are kidding yourself.

Why would you sit in a theatre if it worries you that much

And if they do then it’s nothing to do with me is it?

It’s not mandatory

Some bonkers views here.

Or you could walk around in your own customised gazebo. Unique and ergonomic to you.