Australia in a mess - NZ with a plan

[StartupRepair]

More than half of Australia is in lockdown now, sparked (imo) by the intransigence of the NSW Premier who ignored all warnings about Delta. Our procurement of and messaging around vaccines has been dangerously incompetent.
It all feels a bit bleak today. At least NZ seems to have a plan.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones

You’ve had 16 months living a more ‘normal’ life than most of the world and it’s fair to say that what works for one country, won’t work for another anyway. One ‘wrong’ decision can be disastrous but can equally turn out to be a blessing in disguise in the long term - people will be able to judge it in 20 years, I guess.

This might be a silly question, but if the aim is now to vaccinate people and then open borders again, how are people in Australia feeling about Covid flying around unchecked? Psychologically, it will be very challenging as the control has gone and the vaccines reduce risk rather than eliminating risk. Do you think people are ready to accept this or will there be a fight to keep borders really controlled for longer? Also, if anyone could explain what NZ’s long term plans are, I would be interested to hear. If it is ‘zero Covid’, will borders remain closed for years? Apologies for my ignorance and I could Google it but thought this thread was interesting as it shows the thoughts of people who are in NZ and Australia.

I’ve already accepted that Covid will eventually be endemic in Australia like it is in most of the world. Most of us will catch it eventually.

I’m fine with the risk of catching Covid (I’m double vaccinated) and would rather take my chances with Covid than live forever in some kind of dystopian health dictatorship imposing increasingly extreme measures in a futile attempt to ‘crush the virus’ (see NZ’s plan). I do think some people will be terrified and will want to keep restrictions and be ‘safe’.

I’m tired of it all and just want to get back to something resembling normal life.

@ExpressDelivery I'd say the countries that have suffered or are suffering most are those with the extremely high death rates such as the UK...

Victoria is a very small part of Australia. You can fit 26 englands into Western Australia - its a massive land mass and they are living life as normal in Western Australia with the occasional few days to a week of lockdowns.

@ittakes2

Victoria is a very small part of Australia. You can fit 26 englands into Western Australia - its a massive land mass and they are living life as normal in Western Australia with the occasional few days to a week of lockdowns.

It is the smaller state in size but what about relative populations? That will mean more affected even if very small in size.

amp.smh.com.au/world/europe/scott-morrison-wrongly-claims-uk-is-not-safety-testing-covid-vaccine-20210106-p56s0c.html

This is one example of Scott Morrison criticising U.K. roll out , I presume for political reasons. But it’s so unnecessary and ultimately politically foolish when months later you have to row back. Both NZ and Australian politicians and commentators are guilty of this type of thing.
Scott Morrison has also said Australia will never accept 100 deaths a day “like the U.K..” But Australia will have to accept this at some point so why publicly say you won’t?

Well I think you have to separate politicians from the country as a whole. So the UK is not "Boris Johnson and everything he says and believes" and Australia is not Scott Morrison.

It's good that countries are watching carefully and learning from what is happening elsewhere. I think it isn't helpful to characterise this negatively as "copying" - let's all learn from best practise! We are all human earthlings and what affects one country affects all. Let's work together on solutions.

Queensland is also out of lockdown at this stage. I'm assuming we'll have another one in the next few months but I'm ok with doing another week til everyone gets vaccinated. We've got a mass vaccination centre now opened in Brisbane. Anecdotally most are now very keen to get on with it so I imagine we'll hit the targets for Nov- Dec.

I do say politicians. My point is that Australian and NZ politicians can’t really openly and publicly criticise another country and what they are doing and then expect no one to mention it when they do exactly the same thing 6 months later. Like no one has noticed.
If Jacinda had never made a point of how NZ was following the manufacture unlike the U.K. and if Scott Morrison had made no public comment about the U.K. approving the vaccine under our emergency procedure then they wouldn’t be accused of hypocrisy now. They made the bed they now lie in. Hence my point for politicians of all countries not to comment negatively on what other countries do in the first place. The U.K. government has never publicly criticised the NZ government for example although they could openly say zero Covid is a fools errand but they haven’t and never would. The same courtesy should be returned to the U.K.

I mean you wouldn't be claiming that Boris is a perfect example of humanity would you?

Politicians everywhere will make daft statements. Don't extrapolate that and let it affect your view of the entire country.

My point is that Australian and NZ politicians can’t really openly and publicly criticise another country and what they are doing and then expect no one to mention it when they do exactly the same thing 6 months later. Like no one has noticed.

How is NZ leaving a six week gap between vaccines doing "exactly" the same thing as the UK, which had a 12 week gap??? The two doses will still be much closer together.

I thought NZ does have a plan. Close the borders until 2022. . I read it last night.

@MarshaBradyo

No, there's no animosity between states.

Except a bit surfacing on here?

Although I get it. When coronavirus appears it can be natural to look for blame.

It’s a natural health crisis, which can be managed to a certain degree but not always contained, but we’ve had a good year of people talking about U.K. negatively.

From here and o/s. Personally I found it irritating, all those who would post ‘watching in horror’. Finally, we’ve moved out if it tg.

No not like that. We might think a state premier has cocked up but no one is hating on NSW population. There's a lot of worry, many many people in different states will have family and friends interstate.

On the last 'Australia is fucked' thread people were saying that they hadn't realised how much the states hate each other based on some online Twitter comments.
The states have their own footy teams, accents, cakes, pies, beers. It's the Australian sense of humour that I think a lot of British just don't get. We poke fun at each other.

User I do get it I’m Aussie (should have said that).

And I know what it’s like between the states.

It was interesting as an outsider now though to read people talk about other premiers on the thread as it felt like some of the stuff we’ve been through.

Speaking to family there’s no mention of blame though. They are lucky on their state so far

@bluetongue
Thanks for replying and I’m glad you’ve had the chance to have both jabs.

I have struggled with the ‘you have to learn to live with it’ over the months and months of bad news stories and hearing about people you know dealing with Covid and long Covid. I’m doing my best to enjoy this summer as I’m doubly vaccinated but I have to force myself to do things even now. Are most Australians as keen to be vaccinated as I was in the Spring? I’m really interested in how it must feel to be Covid safe but starting to plan for Covid to be endemic without going through all the other stages - although you seem to have reached the fed up stage too. I’m not being smug as I envy the normality Australians and Kiwis have enjoyed and the fact you haven’t had so many deaths.

Yep everyone I know is keen to be vaccinated ASAP. Previously hesitant have gone ahead. Everyone else signed up and awaiting an invitation in next coming weeks.

The lockdowns have been short here but we're all keen to avoid any more and get things opened up as soon as it's safe. The good thing is the end feels like it is in sight.

In all honestly, I am in the U.K. and would much rather have been in NZ during the pandemic.

I don’t believe for a second that 80% of the population of Australia will be vaccinated this year. Or next, maybe not ever, or maybe in 5-6 years. The wall is at 67-70%. He’ll have to go back on the final stage of the plan which is predicated on 80% vaccination coverage. Aussies on here were quite blasé at the loss of international tourism a year ago because of the boom in domestic tourism. I wonder how the land lies with tourism for the next few years?

@newstart1234

I don’t believe for a second that 80% of the population of Australia will be vaccinated this year. Or next, maybe not ever, or maybe in 5-6 years. The wall is at 67-70%. He’ll have to go back on the final stage of the plan which is predicated on 80% vaccination coverage. Aussies on here were quite blasé at the loss of international tourism a year ago because of the boom in domestic tourism. I wonder how the land lies with tourism for the next few years?

Here is some current info so you can get up to speed.

All current predications show 70% by November and 80% by December.

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/ng-interactive/2021/aug/13/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-australia-vaccination-rate-progress-how-many-people-vaccinated-percent-tracker-australian-states-number-total-daily-live-data-stats-updates-news-schedule-tracking-chart-percentage-new-cases-today

lol i think you underestimate how much Australians love a Bali holiday. Wont be allowed on the flying kangaroos without a jab - that alone will push vax rates upwards (joking obvs...kinda)

Oh yes, thanks for that. So it’s 80% of over 16s. But that tracker assumes they carry on at this rate. More likely is that they’ll get to 65% of whole population fully vaccinated and then the rate will slow way down.

I think the UK is currently at 75% of adults fully vaccinated (69% of population) and I don’t think there is anyone thinking here it will get much higher and almost certainly not over 80% of adults. It’s the same picture over much of Europe and unsurprisingly in the us it’s generally lower. Maybe aus will be an outlier (they’ve certainly been so till now!), but it’s likely that the picture will be similar to Europe wrt vaccinations.

Fortunately other measures are quite effective too, it’s just odd by the pm to set a numeric target to allow travel when they must know there is a risk they will have to be scrapped.

The chart for Europe did show a wall was reached at around same target.

Unless more coercive measures help (no access to places etc) - maybe not even then not sure.

I mean, it’s not impossible to meet that target in the next few years, but can Australia do without relatively unrestricted travel (like tourists) for years?

Oh, I’ve just seen that around 90% of UK adults have had one dose, which means that hopefully in a few months the number with 2 doses will rise above 80%. So maybe it is within reach in Australia for next year at least. I have only visited once before and I would love to come again one day. Bloody covid 🙄

The issue previously was lack of urgency as no cases around. Now the issue is lack of supply. Aus is very pro vax so I don't doubt that most eligible will take it. The PM has already indicated having different rules for vaccinated . And he has said if you have been offered and choose not to take it then that will be up to you, we will not hold back on opening up.

disco123 Aussie's are very pro vax usually but the rightwing media (Sky News, and any Murdoch owned paper) are really pushing an agenda against Covid vaccination, lockdowns etc, which isn't helping.

Dh and I are double vaxed, but the lack of urgency by our friends (all pretty well educated) to get their shot was a bit surprising to us.

They appeared to not be against it, just not in a rush to book the bloody thing 🙄