Masks to be Mandatory in Scotland until at least next Spring

[Ginandfantalemon]

Just read this and wondered what others in Scotland are thinking.
The article states that Scotland will stick to the strictest rules in the UK and it is hoped that voluntary mask wearing, as in Asian Countries, will be a measure that is adopted. I truly don't know if I can go on anymore. I haven't been out for over a year because of these bloody rules and this is just enough now.

@Spaghettipie1

Masks will also prevent the winter flu/noro bugs from overwhelming hospitals too, as well as Covid. Very sensible, small thing to do, big impact on society.

Well this is why I think I am probably going to continue to wear a mask regardless of regulations and limits.

Since we introduced mask wearing in May/June last year, I have not had a single cold or sniffle. Now I totally appreciate that this is likely arse-backwards logic, and the reason for that is down to social distancing and enhanced hygiene, possibly a bit of added cleansing and sanitation too, but it is a fact, and part of me thinks that once public spaces do become more densely populated, if there is actually anything to mask wearing at all, then any small benefit is likely to be multiplied the more and more people we encounter.

There is also one other reason I'll continue to wear it, and this is completely petty and infantile, but I'll wear it because it seems to press the buttons of and wind up some hilariously self-important and pompous individuals, the types who liken democratically elected politicians to mass-murderous, megalomaniacal dictators.

So there is that benefit as well.

@pianolessons1
Wow, you managed to get someone to wear a mask just by talking to them on the phone. Who knew it was that simple.

[quote Ginandfantalemon]@pianolessons1
Wow, you managed to get someone to wear a mask just by talking to them on the phone. Who knew it was that simple.[/quote]
I'm wondering if my autism and sensory processing disorder can be cured so easily. I mean I already knew I just have to "try harder" and I'll be able to wear a mask (according to certain people anyway), but wouldn't it be nice if a simple phone call could actually make it so I could...you know..talk to someone I don't know on the phone without freaking out, or deal with loud noises and new places, manage in crowds without needing to escape and all the other things that I struggle with because, well I'm autistic.

@Spaghettipie1

Masks will also prevent the winter flu/noro bugs from overwhelming hospitals too, as well as Covid. Very sensible, small thing to do, big impact on society.

See, this is something I cannot relate to AT ALL: that mask wearing is a “small thing”. It totally changes the way we interact as humans. I think it a huge thing.

What I do know, is that there is no detrimental effect to people who can do so continuing to wear masks in certain specific places.

But there is, though. Even if that detriment goes no further than “it makes my life a bit harder and a bit less pleasant.” Maybe you think the benefit outweighs that, fair enough, but that’s not the same as “there is no detriment whatsoever.” If there was no detriment then nobody would be objecting.

There are a lot of people who exist in the broad zone between “barely notice I’m wearing it” and “actually can’t wear them”. Some people’s vision is more impaired than others, some people rely more on lip reading than others, some people’s skin reacts worse to them than others, some people put more value in social connections gained by seeing facial expressions than others. Some people are children learning to talk. And so on, and so on. None of those things might affect you personally, like they might not affect me personally, but they affect a lot of other people who don’t matter less than I do.

There is variance in different people with the exact same conditions. I'm also diagnosed ASD. When mask wearing was first mooted I hit the roof and said absolutely no way as I was certain it would have me clawing at my face and turn me into a spitting ball of rage. Partner said nothing at the time, but out of the blue she pulled a mask out in front of me one day when I was perfectly calm and tranquil, and suggested I try it.

I put it on, found that it didn't actually trigger any of the responses I thought it would, and I've had no problems wearing one since. So yes, sometimes a gentle word is all that somebody like me needs to give something a try, because the idea in my head was totally different to the reality, but I would never have found that out myself because I would never have tried on a mask had my partner not been present and suggested it. I'd have just made and assumption about myself. An incorrect assumption as it turns out.

@Whatever9999

I really think you should call @pianolessons1, a simple phone call might just be the answer to everything!

[quote Ginandfantalemon]@pianolessons1
Wow, you managed to get someone to wear a mask just by talking to them on the phone. Who knew it was that simple.[/quote]
It sometimes is. Not always. Maybe not in your case. But it is worth a try and I have had significant success. Many people think that any degree of asthma, COPD, depression or anxiety is an automatic exemption to mask wearing.

It would be a pretty small thing for me if private cars got outlawed tomorrow. Would probably have great health effects for the wider population, too! I still wouldn’t advocate we do it though because I can see beyond the end of my own nose (unless my mask has steamed up my glasses again )

@GoldenOmber

What I do know, is that there is no detrimental effect to people who can do so continuing to wear masks in certain specific places.

But there is, though. Even if that detriment goes no further than “it makes my life a bit harder and a bit less pleasant.” Maybe you think the benefit outweighs that, fair enough, but that’s not the same as “there is no detriment whatsoever.” If there was no detriment then nobody would be objecting.

There are a lot of people who exist in the broad zone between “barely notice I’m wearing it” and “actually can’t wear them”. Some people’s vision is more impaired than others, some people rely more on lip reading than others, some people’s skin reacts worse to them than others, some people put more value in social connections gained by seeing facial expressions than others. Some people are children learning to talk. And so on, and so on. None of those things might affect you personally, like they might not affect me personally, but they affect a lot of other people who don’t matter less than I do.

All fair points, but what I really meant by that statement is there is absolutely nothing in the claims by the anti-mask morons that people will literally keel over and die if they happen to have a piece of paper or cloth across their mouths for a few minutes here and there.

Of course I accept that it's a nuisance and can be uncomfortable, it's not like I get giddy at the prospect of wearing one myself, but there is so much ill-informed, and quite frankly ludicrous nonsense out there about what mask-wearing does to the physiology of the human body that it needs dismissed out of hand.

Crikey - this is some thread! I thought the "exempt people aren't really exempt and just need to try a bit harder" thinking had disappeared around last summer. Apparently not. I assume that anyone who can't "just try for a little bit over the mouth" haven't been seeking treatment for whatever it is they need treatment for. Which is one way of cutting down patient numbers I suppose . Quite like the "well, x other country doesn't have mask exemptions, and you don't see maskless people there" argument (well, no, because they can't leave their house, so of course you won't see them!)

OP - I agree that the possibility of masks til next year is really daunting. I haven't been as affected by them as you - I can, and do wear a mask when required, and will continue to do so. Because, as you say, it is the law. I'm not exempt, and I don't want to break the law by choosing not to wear a mask, even though it's impossible to prove one way or another. I understand I wouldn't be fined or anything, as long as I didn't kick up a fuss in front of a policeman about "my rights" or whatever. I may even continue to wear a mask in some situations if it wasn't mandatory - if it was really crowded, or I knew there were vulnerable people around, or if someone asked me to - because, hey, I'm not a dick.

But I really dislike masks, on me and on other people (mainly a hearing thing). So I'm choosing to do fewer things that I would otherwise like to do, because they involve masks. I know it's very uncool for Edinburgh locals to enjoy the Fringe, but I do, and I'd have liked to have gone to a few indoor shows this year - but all the restrictions (not just masks) make it sound pretty joyless, so I'll give it a miss. That's entirely my decision, and no one is suffering apart from me. It's a bit shit, and I'm not spending money that I would like to spend in businesses that might like me to spend it with them - but that's my decision, and I'm hardly causing the local economy to collapse by myself. Meh.

I assume Scotland is keeping the mandatory masks and things like keeping customer details in hospitality just as a "doorstop" regulation - so if there is a requirement to bring back further restrictions in the winter they already have the legislation in place to add to. But it doesn't really seem proportionate any more in my opinion. If, as NS says, no one she speaks to really minds wearing masks, then people will wear them regardless, so no law is needed. If she isn't right, and actually about half of the people in a supermarket aren't wearing masks just because they don't want to, as suggested on this thread, then having it in law isn't making any difference anyway, so why not make it voluntary?

I'm also not keen on the framing of any questioning of when it's all going to end as "uncaring" and "selfish" - as "its important to protect the NHS/ the vulnerable/ the unvaccinated/ children/ everyone else as you can still get long covid even if vaccinated..." It's a perfectly reasonable question, in my opinion! We're not nasty people for asking when things could possibly go back to normal normal - especially as we're currently following the law as it stands. Unless the law is now we all need to love masks, and be grateful we have the chance to wear them...

@XdownwiththissortofthingX

As you say autism is a spectrum. Part of my autism is an inate need to follow rules, so when the face covering rule came in, I tried to wear one. In fact I tried more different types than I can count. I persevered, despite how they made me feel and act. I perservered to the point that my arms were covered in scratches and there were bruises on my head. Even when I couldn't hold a shopping basket, because the stims had become completely uncontrollable, and I was hitting my head with a basket in my hand (and even worse.once a coffee).
Ironically it was an hcp (pharmacist), who didn't know I have asd, who told me to take off the mask and try and wear a lanyard instead (I still struggled wearing a lanyard but not as much).
But I have extreme sensitivity to textures, materials, touch etc. I'm known for wearing shorts and vest top even in the winter, because I don't like the feel.of material next to my skin and so wear as little as I can get away with.
One of my sons though he can tolerate a mask,.only trouble is he mouths everything (hes sensory seeking) so can't wear one because it would be drenched in seconds and so not do any good.

Anyway, a quiet word wouldn't have been any good for either of us. I wanted to be able to wear one, I tried desensitisation,.it didn't work. My son would love to wear one, but we've been trying to persuade him for 11 years that only food, drink and toothbrushes belong in his mouth, not had any luck with that yet (although I should be grateful he hasn't managed to catch hold of a spider or ladybird in the last couple of uears).

I can't believe we are over a year on and people are still going on about this. You have 2 choices wear one or don't but no, that's still not good enough for you? The self-absorbedness is strong here, thinking the whole town is going to stop and stare when you walk out the door.

@Whatever9999

Do you know you can get a discreet, printed card via NHS if you are finding the lanyard a bit much?

It is face coverings. A mask may not be as easy for some people as a scarf, a bandana or a snood, if only because it is quicker to remove and the knowledge it is quicker is reassuring.

OP, I tried wearing face coverings and ended up at 45 seconds before the overwhelm set in as my pb... not quite what the patronising "advice" about practicing offered upthread intends! I tried visors, but ended up wearing one for the final time in January on the night I left the supermarket hyperventilating with a bleeding face from scratching my skin off in several places. It wasn't an easy time to start going barefaced as complience was high as were cases, but I did it and haven't had any aggro. I don't know if I've had any dirty looks because I don't cope with making face contact with the little bit of face left on display. As someone who lip reads a lot, my focal point is lost and I struggle processing the added distortion and lost visual input. So I look down at the ground.

I'd recommend getting a lanyard/ printed exemption card and having it in your pocket so it can be produced on the off chance that staff ask. Go at a quiet time when there is less staffing and fewer people to risk busybodying around. Start somewhere small where you're not in for more than a couple of minutes.

As only the supermarket was open in January I didn't get a lanyard until May when places opened up a bit more and particularly for a wedding and the park and ride to get to it. I used it on a recent trip to Ireland which is like visiting June 2020 with added full on winter mask complience and bonuses for wearing outside voluntarily. I don't know the details of Irelands exemptions, but again I didn't have any bother with the lanyard on display.

I loathe being in places surrounded by faces I can't read, and at the worst it took a lot of psyching up to get out and do the week's shop. It's not been easy but it has been worth been keeping at pushing myself into indoor spaces and the anxiety has gone down with experience. Changing gear was the hardest part. It also doesn't help that my threshold for dealing with busy places and background noise has gone down from lack of exposure.

Thank goodness the nurse who did my smear test was nothing like Piano. The practice chased me up because my smear test became due in April 2020. I explained that I had issues with both wearing a mask and others wearing them and I was holding off, and the nurse arranged it so that only she was wearing a visor. While there is nothing explicitly "exempt" on my medical records there are several contributing themes going back 25+ years that add up to the big picture.

I live in Scotland and pleased to see the govt has adopted the same sensible cautious stance as me. We'd continue to wear masks in shop even if nobody else did.

Sorry to hear you've not been out for a year, why is that? We've been out and about for walks without masks, enjoying the sun and fresh air, well away from other people, no risk at all.

@BogRollBOGOF

What do you mean when you say 'bonuses for wearing outside voluntarily'?

@2bazookas

I have been out, just nowhere where masks are needed. Plenty walks and visiting people in their homes and outside.

It's a worry if she gets her way with an Independant Scotland what her rules would be

The only way Scotland will get Independence, is after a referendum where the majority support it.

Really, nothing to do with Nicola getting her way.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

At present, the only people who are not wearing masks are those who are exempt

This simply isn't the case, unless, at least 50% of the people in one of the largest supermarkets in Edinburgh at 9pm'ish last night are exempt, not wearing their masks, and not displaying lanyards either.

Given that most of them were 20 and 30'somethings, bounding up and down aisles like gazelles, I find that very, very difficult to believe.

Regards 'hard to understand'? Well, no, it wouldn't be, if the picture you are painting remotely resembled reality. It does not.

I was actually in a supermarket last night, OP admits to not having left the house in months. Which of us do you think it is likely has a better handle on what it going on in shops right now?

And where I live, mask compliance is almost 100%. There was not ONE person in the supermarket this morning without a mask or a lanyard.

Your reality clearly differs from mine. It's been obvious throughout that some areas have much higher compliance than others.

You have no idea what the picture is like where the OP lives as she hasn't told us where that is. And she doesn't have to.

Also @Ginandfantalemon come and join us on the "railing" threads on Scotsnet.

Lots of sensible chat over there about how hacked off everyone is.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/scotsnet/4312208-Guilt-Free-Railing-10

I'm really struggling with the mask-wearing now. I've found it hard from the start, but as time goes on I get more and more panicky about it.

I'm menopausal and pretty much every time I put a mask on, I get a hot flush. Then the thought that I can't take it off overwhelms me, and I end up a red, sweating, teary mess, and I just have to get back outside. I can't do a food shop, I can't shop for clothes, I can't visit a museum or cinema or the gym. My whole life is outdoors or at home.
I've only had my hair cut twice during the pandemic, and both times I had to keep going to the door for air, and ended up going home without the blow dry.

But I live in Scotland. I'm not a law-breaker. I won't pretend to have asthma to get a lanyard. I won't risk a fine by just not wearing a mask. Yet people are happily saying they'll wear masks forever, and that Scotland is being so much more "sensitive" by keeping masks indefinitely.

I had a recent holiday in England. It was beautiful. I went in shops. I ate in restaurants. I even went on a bus. I actually cried at a glimpse of my old life. I'm already planning a trip back over the border next month.

If Scotland's stricter rules had meant lower cases or deaths, they would be a price worth paying, but they didn't. Now we have masks into 2022, then 2023...

@Lucienandjean

I'm really struggling with the mask-wearing now. I've found it hard from the start, but as time goes on I get more and more panicky about it.

I'm menopausal and pretty much every time I put a mask on, I get a hot flush. Then the thought that I can't take it off overwhelms me, and I end up a red, sweating, teary mess, and I just have to get back outside. I can't do a food shop, I can't shop for clothes, I can't visit a museum or cinema or the gym. My whole life is outdoors or at home.
I've only had my hair cut twice during the pandemic, and both times I had to keep going to the door for air, and ended up going home without the blow dry.

But I live in Scotland. I'm not a law-breaker. I won't pretend to have asthma to get a lanyard. I won't risk a fine by just not wearing a mask. Yet people are happily saying they'll wear masks forever, and that Scotland is being so much more "sensitive" by keeping masks indefinitely.

I had a recent holiday in England. It was beautiful. I went in shops. I ate in restaurants. I even went on a bus. I actually cried at a glimpse of my old life. I'm already planning a trip back over the border next month.

If Scotland's stricter rules had meant lower cases or deaths, they would be a price worth paying, but they didn't. Now we have masks into 2022, then 2023...

Aw @Lucienandjean, it's rotten isn't it. I think it's hard when we remember what we used to do, we took it so much for granted, well I know I did. Glad you had a good holiday.

I really struggle to see how mask wearing alone will make any difference