Masks to be Mandatory in Scotland until at least next Spring

[Ginandfantalemon]

Just read this and wondered what others in Scotland are thinking.
The article states that Scotland will stick to the strictest rules in the UK and it is hoped that voluntary mask wearing, as in Asian Countries, will be a measure that is adopted. I truly don't know if I can go on anymore. I haven't been out for over a year because of these bloody rules and this is just enough now.

Sturgeon runs the country like a dictator. God help the Scots if they get independence with her in charge.

@FuckingFucksicles

Hi OP,

I agree it feels nowhere near "freedom" - still feels restricted, because it is!

The face masks should be optional. For those who wish to wear them, fine, others who chose not to - fine! They dont bloody work anyway!

I had to go and get a lanyard because Ive had several nose bleeds (my nose got so dry) and also nearly passed out a few times constantly breathing in the same breath! People who say you dont do that I have no time for. You are NOT getting a proper fresh breath. I used to feel embarrassed but whos actual business is it!?

I feel sorry for the kids going back to school, made my shake my head when I read they are putting co2 alarms in schools... hmmm is that because lots will be produced from making the kids constantly wear them!

There needs to be more education for all, on a healthy diet for immune systems and clean surfaces more everywhere. You could go on and on about this garbage and how see through it all is. Problem is with Scotland we are far too laid back, like taking candy from a baby - very few would actually fight for their rights if it came to it.

What about choice for staff in supermarkets who have to work there and would choose to begin a safe environment. And where is your evidence that they don’t work. Happy to supply evidence that they do. Your comment about CO 2 alarms in schools makes no sense. Masks make no difference to your ability to breathe freely. Surgeons wear them for many hours.Oxygen easily passes through a cloth mask. The CO 2 monitors are to ensure adequate ventilation assets.gov.ie/135876/ce9ff015-d522-4e48-add2-14465375d34b.pdf. As the virus has been proven to be airborne surely any move to improve standards of ventilation is helpful. Healthy diets are always important. But if I had a child at school I would prefer them to gain immunity via a vaccination rather than catching COVID with the risk of developing long COVID. Look at the situation in Florida where lots of children are unwell with the delta variant. But happy to be educated if you want to give some actual detail about whatever your last paragraph refers to. Problem with Scotland is lots of people posting on social media with absolutely no understanding of science .

@XDownwiththissortofthingX
I don't know where you are, but there a certainly far more that 50% wearing facemasks where I am. In fact I would say it's more 95%. I've only ever once seen someone with a lanyard on. And it IS the law to wear a mask.

@Viviennemary

Sturgeon runs the country like a dictator. God help the Scots if they get independence with her in charge.

Aye, those pesky democratically elected dictators that govern with the consent of the people, eh?

You're only about the fourth person to utter this tripe in this thread, and all the others have been widely ridiculed. Why do you persist in embarrassing yourselves?

As opposed to making a complete mess of it, killing more people, ruining her own legacy, and finding herself out of her ear in disgrace?

You think that's what she should have been aiming for instead?

Certainly seems to be the train of thought the unionists who claim 'this is all about Nicola Sturgeon' appear to follow.

So she hasn't killed anyone with her policies. BOTH Sturgeon and Johhnson have been poor in this. Neither are particularly good politicians. Sturgeon is a far better communicator so she talks a good game but actions speak louder than words. I do think we have got to the stage that a lot of her lecturing (sorry talking) is doing more damage than good. I do think initially her communication skills were appreciated. I do think some of the decisions she has made have been correct, but I also think the UK government have been making better decisions latterly and she seems a lot more on the backfoot. Possibly why some of the decisions now are bizarre. I think she started really faltering when a plan was detailed for England and she had not even considered the reopening.

Boris Johnson - well he is what he is. For some strange reason people voted for him and his party. I can't fathom that. But in 2021 I think they have managed the pandemic better than it has been managed in Scotland. That may change again as we are not put of the woods.

It really doesn't need to be only SNP = Good, Tory / England = Bad.

It's quite feasible to see that both sides have made good and bad decisions.

We are a good two or three years away from being able to which governments have made the best decisions. We are still as a world very much in the middle of this pandemic not as the UK seems to think at the end.

[quote Ginandfantalemon]@XDownwiththissortofthingX
I don't know where you are, but there a certainly far more that 50% wearing facemasks where I am. In fact I would say it's more 95%. I've only ever once seen someone with a lanyard on. And it IS the law to wear a mask.[/quote]
Have you been in a shop since Sunday? Genuine question.

It might well be 'law', (technically it isn't, but that's neither here nor there), but it is in no way being monitored, enforced, or even observed to any huge degree, so the only place the 'legality' of this is actually a sticking point, is inside your own mind.

Look, I concede, if you go to your local shop today, and you find that mask wearing is still being observed at a near 95% rate, then yes, someone not wearing a mask is obviously going to be different to the crowd, but as you acknowledge, you are exempt, you are entitled not to wear a mask, so whether other people are legally compelled or not is neither here nor there, because it does not effect you, you are exempt regardless. The 'law' is irrelevant.

So what you are doing now, is an exercise in martyrdom, because you are trying to imply that what is inhibiting your liberty is a 'law' about mask wearing, when in actual fact you, personally, are exempt from this law!

At this point, it looks like the only reason you keep bringing this up is because of your ideological opposition, which is abundantly clear, and, I admit, perfectly reasonable, but your ideological opposition has no bearing whatsoever on how this law materially affects you, because you are exempt.

So, not to put to fine a point on it, it looks like you are refusing to go to the shop, just to spite the people who have made a law that you disagree with, even though the law does not effect you. Don't you think that's a bit silly?

[quote godmum56]@TheGenealogist

the OP says this "and it is hoped that voluntary mask wearing, as in Asian Countries, will be a measure that is adopted."

which is what confused me[/quote]
@dodmum56

'John Swinney, Scotland’s minister for Covid strategy, said face coverings would remain “a significant part of our lives” and predicted many people could copy the practice in some east Asian countries of routinely wearing them outdoors.'

This was quoted in The Guardian.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX
No I haven't been in a shop since 10th July last year.
It's been a big issue for me so please don't call me 'silly'.
I'm an adult, not some 5year old who doesn't want to put her shoes on.

[quote Ginandfantalemon]@XDownwiththissortofthingX
No I haven't been in a shop since 10th July last year.
It's been a big issue for me so please don't call me 'silly'.
I'm an adult, not some 5year old who doesn't want to put her shoes on.[/quote]
Gin, I know you're not 'silly', and I'm not implying I think you are a 'silly' person. I apologise wholeheartedly if that's what you thought I meant, I honestly didn't.

I was just making the point that while it's clear that you feel really strongly about this, and your views are perfectly legitimate, the logic you are using with regard to the 'law' part of this doesn't really stack up because the law doesn't apply to you. I was just trying to explain how you seem to be really het up about the legal aspect of this when it doesn't apply to you. Maybe I should have said 'nonsensical', or 'contradictory', rather than silly. Poor choice of words on my part perhaps

John Swinney, Scotland’s minister for Covid strategy, said face coverings would remain “a significant part of our lives” and predicted many people could copy the practice in some east Asian countries of routinely wearing them outdoors.'
This was quoted in The Guardian

See, this is quite interesting to me, purely from the perspective that I have two SE Asian acquaintances who, well before Covid ever materialised, were absolutely agog that we do not, as a matter of course, wear masks when out in public, because it's as normal to them when stepping outside as putting our shoes on is to us.

The air quality in many SE and E Asian cities is absolutely terrible, but that is also true of many UK cities, so it's not just a health issue for them, it's also seen as just polite and good day-to-day hygiene, because if we are honest, nobody really wants to sit on a bus with some stranger breathing god knows what down your neck for half and hour, twice a day, five times per week.

They honestly can not comprehend our ideological opposition to masks, because the view it as no different to ideological opposition to toilet paper, or soap, or disposable hankies and so on. It's just an ingrained part of their culture to the point whereby it's a default state.

Not just in Asia, but even in other European countries, people were being stopped and find for simply being outdoors in the open air without wearing a mask. We really, really don't have it tough here by any comparable standard, even though that means nothing to people with legitimate reasons to not wear a mask. 'I don't like it' doesn't really wash in the face of a pandemic. 'I can not' is a completely different story, of course.

*fined

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

*John Swinney, Scotland’s minister for Covid strategy, said face coverings would remain “a significant part of our lives” and predicted many people could copy the practice in some east Asian countries of routinely wearing them outdoors.' This was quoted in The Guardian*

See, this is quite interesting to me, purely from the perspective that I have two SE Asian acquaintances who, well before Covid ever materialised, were absolutely agog that we do not, as a matter of course, wear masks when out in public, because it's as normal to them when stepping outside as putting our shoes on is to us.

The air quality in many SE and E Asian cities is absolutely terrible, but that is also true of many UK cities, so it's not just a health issue for them, it's also seen as just polite and good day-to-day hygiene, because if we are honest, nobody really wants to sit on a bus with some stranger breathing god knows what down your neck for half and hour, twice a day, five times per week.

They honestly can not comprehend our ideological opposition to masks, because the view it as no different to ideological opposition to toilet paper, or soap, or disposable hankies and so on. It's just an ingrained part of their culture to the point whereby it's a default state.

Not just in Asia, but even in other European countries, people were being stopped and find for simply being outdoors in the open air without wearing a mask. We really, really don't have it tough here by any comparable standard, even though that means nothing to people with legitimate reasons to not wear a mask. 'I don't like it' doesn't really wash in the face of a pandemic. 'I can not' is a completely different story, of course.

I totally agree. It says something about an entitled attitude within our society that there is so much opposition to what is for many a slight imposition that they don’t like. With no acceptance that during a pandemic we should do whatever is in the “ greater good” And to talk about dictatorships and the like is to diminish the extreme hardships that people face in other countries which are governed under such regimes.

@QueenofKattegat

OP - go out for a walk tomorrow and wear a mask for 5 minutes. Do it for 10 minutes the next day. You will be fine. At the surgery where I work we have had loads of people saying they can't wear a mask due to anxiety and they all manage it for as long as they are in the building

No. She's exempt. End of. She doesn't need patronising "tips".

No she isn't. There are no actual guidelines for exemption. I must have taken over 50 calls from people saying they couldn't manage a mask, many due to anxiety - every single one managed. Anxiety is not in itself a guaranteed reason for exemption and yes, if she came to our surgery then unless it was an emergency situation she would be expected to try and wear a mask.

Do you get a wee buzz out of telling distressed, anxious and upset people to wear a mask, @pianolessons1?

Fuck me. Some people.

@pianolessons1
Thank the lord I don't need to come to your surgery. Are you sure you are in the correct profession?
There are guidelines for exemption, stated on the Scottish Government website. They offer exemption cards in conjunction with NHS Scotland. This is from the guidelines:

Mental health
you might feel trapped or claustrophobic, panicked or anxious and be exempt from wearing a face covering for these reasons
you might feel severely distressed or anxious if wearing a face covering triggers acute symptoms of a mental health condition, like:
panic attacks, flashbacks or other severe anxiety symptoms
paranoia or hearing voices
dissociating, or switching alters (something that happens to people with dissociative identity disorder)
thoughts of self-harm or suicide
if you are exempt, you still might feel very anxious about being judged, shamed or stigmatised in public. Or about the possibility of being asked to pay a fine. This may feel especially hard to cope with if the reason you can’t wear a face covering is also related to your mental health

And to talk about dictatorships and the like is to diminish the extreme hardships that people face in other countries which are governed under such regimes

Quite

As I mentioned in my first reply to one of these lines, my absolutely lovely Spanish colleague becomes incandescent if she hears people in Scotland talking that way. Not because she's a huge fan of the SNP, but because she lived her formative years in an authoritarian dictatorship, where relatives of hers were detained and lost their lives simply for having a difference of opinion or thought, or in other cases, people were persecuted because they came from the 'wrong' part of the country.

It beggars belief people still think it's just a perfectly acceptable throw-away line, because all it does is betray their apparent ignorance and indifference toward people who have actually had to endure despotic, unelected government. Never mind the hundreds of millions of people killed outright by their own leaders.

I am in England I love it not wearing a mask and I am pissed off with living to be scared of dying so covid does not bother me what does bother me is my mental health , delayed cancer treatments , and everything else does not matter apart from covid and assoles who judge other people ! I have spent 18 months protecting others now I am protecting me and my family

Well since anyone, literally anyone, can go online and purchase lanyards, or print out the NHS issued exemption cards, the question of who exactly might or might not be eligible is totally moot.

It isn't policed or monitored, and the Tesco security guard is not going to stop you and demand that you prove that you came about yours legitimately. Not that he's going to stop you in any case.

It sucks that this, like everything else well-intentioned that anyone ever comes up with, is wide open to abuse by indifferent individuals, but it is what it is.

@TheGenealogist

Do you get a wee buzz out of telling distressed, anxious and upset people to wear a mask, *@pianolessons1*?

Fuck me. Some people.

No I'm pleased when I can empower people to realise that a mask will not set off symptoms and so they can go out and about and don't need to hide at home.

@pianolessons1

How do you know a mask will not set of someone's symptoms? One shoe does not fit all

@Ginandfantalemon

Honest question again Gin.

Say tomorrow masks became voluntary, like you wish. What exactly do you believe that would change about your circumstances?

The reason I ask, is it's clear just from the responses in this thread that some people would continue to wear them through choice, and others would not. So you'd only have the exact same scenario we have right now, in that when you go into a shop, some people would be wearing a mask, and some would not.

How does that change anything at all about your ability to go to the shop or otherwise?

[quote Ginandfantalemon]@pianolessons1

How do you know a mask will not set of someone's symptoms? One shoe does not fit all[/quote]
In my experience so far it hasn't. 100% of those who believed themselves to be mask exempt were fine. There are a few genuine reasons such as trigeminal neuralgia, severe autism or LD and PTSD arising from oral trauma, but even some in those groups are able to wear one.

Gosh, where did you go to med school, @pianolessons1, to be able to diagnose an entire medical history at a single glance?! Impressive.

If someone tells you they are exempt, then you should respect that. Not either start lecturing them about how everyone else can manage, and just to try for 5 minutes, and that anxiety isn't an excuse, or even worse, start demanding chapter on verse about why they are exempt.

Compassion? Out the fucking window. All that matters is COVID.

Of course making it voluntary would make things easier for the OP. At present, the only people who are not wearing masks are those who are exempt. She feels that it would single her out, that people would be looking at her, questioning her, wondering why she has a lanyard on, or has no lanyard and no mask.

If masks were voluntary, then there would be a much higher percentage of people not wearing a mask. Some would be exempt, some would just not want to wear one. OP would have safety in numbers, with far more people choosing to ditch the masks. People would not feel they have the right to question her not wearing one as they wouldn't know whether she was exempt or not.

Is that really so hard to understand??