Masks to be Mandatory in Scotland until at least next Spring

[Ginandfantalemon]

Just read this and wondered what others in Scotland are thinking.
The article states that Scotland will stick to the strictest rules in the UK and it is hoped that voluntary mask wearing, as in Asian Countries, will be a measure that is adopted. I truly don't know if I can go on anymore. I haven't been out for over a year because of these bloody rules and this is just enough now.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX
If they became voluntary, then it would be impossible to tell between those who had an exemption (a hidden disability) and those who had just chose not to wear one because they didn't have to. As it stands at the moment those without one are declaring to the world they have a hidden disability and I don't believe this should be the case. I respect those who would continue to wear one, but it would be nice to have the option. It would be nice to pop into a 'quiet' shop, the bank, post office, or into a restaurant when it's not busy. I don't want to be amongst crowds of people but the choice to use my own judgement is what I would like without everyone knowing I have some sort of problem going on.

@TheGenealogist
Definitely on the same page!

I totally understand where you're coming from. Your medical history is yours. Nobody else should have the right to know or ask.

What's the big deal? Just don't wear one and if anyone asks why you're not wearing one, tell them to fuck off and mind their own business. Sick of the mask monitors. Away and mind yer business.

OP, I'm exactly the same as you. Been waiting and waiting for masks to become personal choice because I'm struggling with panic, hyperventilating and skipped heart beats when I have one on. I've been forced to wear at work (school) and have been physically shaking, sweating and feeling faint after 6 hours in it and so I have had enough. Bought myself a lanyard but strangely hate wearing it as people stare or question me. I need to perfect my fuck off stare.

@TheGenealogist

Gosh, where did you go to med school, *@pianolessons1*, to be able to diagnose an entire medical history at a single glance?! Impressive.

If someone tells you they are exempt, then you should respect that. Not either start lecturing them about how everyone else can manage, and just to try for 5 minutes, and that anxiety isn't an excuse, or even worse, start demanding chapter on verse about why they are exempt.

Compassion? Out the fucking window. All that matters is COVID.

That's the point. I do have people's medical history in front of me when having these discussions.

At present, the only people who are not wearing masks are those who are exempt

This simply isn't the case, unless, at least 50% of the people in one of the largest supermarkets in Edinburgh at 9pm'ish last night are exempt, not wearing their masks, and not displaying lanyards either.

Given that most of them were 20 and 30'somethings, bounding up and down aisles like gazelles, I find that very, very difficult to believe.

Regards 'hard to understand'? Well, no, it wouldn't be, if the picture you are painting remotely resembled reality. It does not.

I was actually in a supermarket last night, OP admits to not having left the house in months. Which of us do you think it is likely has a better handle on what it going on in shops right now?

OP, remember when 'blended learning' was going to be the case for the whole school year? Lasted about a week and then they U-turned so fast the whole country got whiplash. I would guess mandatory masks will end up going the same way, after the ridiculous weddings and nightclubs situations. But who knows, sigh.

Am a bit at the surprisingly large number of English people I know who've declared how sensible Scotland's approach is and how they wish it could be the same where they live, while choosing not to wear masks in situations where they'd be compulsory here in Scotland. Grates a bit to hear "well done Nicola wish Boris would do the same!!!" from someone whose next Facebook update is photos of them at a wedding, not wearing a mask (mandatory at the ceremony, not at the reception) or out with their primary-age child who is not wearing a mask (was compulsory for 5-11 year olds here in public until a few days ago), etc etc.

@pianolessons1

So if in that person's medical records it states they suffer anxiety, panic attacks, hyperventilation syndrome, etc. do you just tell them to put their mask on and get on with it. Anyone with anxiety or any other debilitating mental health issue knows that it can take years to get the proper treatment. Popping down to the surgery for a quick consultation on mask wearing just doesn't happen for these people.

[quote Ginandfantalemon]@XDownwiththissortofthingX
If they became voluntary, then it would be impossible to tell between those who had an exemption (a hidden disability) and those who had just chose not to wear one because they didn't have to. As it stands at the moment those without one are declaring to the world they have a hidden disability and I don't believe this should be the case. I respect those who would continue to wear one, but it would be nice to have the option. It would be nice to pop into a 'quiet' shop, the bank, post office, or into a restaurant when it's not busy. I don't want to be amongst crowds of people but the choice to use my own judgement is what I would like without everyone knowing I have some sort of problem going on.[/quote]
As it stands at the moment those without one are declaring to the world they have a hidden disability and I don't believe this should be the case.

They're doing nothing of the sort. They are not wearing a mask, but they are saying nothing at all about their reasons for not wearing a mask.

Again, do you think all the perfectly fit and healthy 20 and 30'somethings I witnessed trooping about a supermarket last night, a good 50% of the total people in there, are actually mask exempt, but are just choosing not to show a lanyard?

What do you think is the more likely explanation? That they are mask exempt, or that they are just choosing not to wear a mask?

See, again, given what I just witnessed, your logic totally falls apart, because you are claiming that not wearing a mask would highlight you as someone who is exempt, when they reality is, given the huge numbers of people who have obviously decided to do away with mask wearing, you would simply look like yet another one of the 50% or so who have decided to not wear one.

I live in Scotland and am fine with mask wearing. I'd prefer it if we had kept more social distancing (was on a bus on Sunday and most people had no concept of personal space) but appreciate the business rationale (I won't personally be rushing into crowded bars). I've not seen people challenged for not wearing a mask, but I have had to put up with an unmarked person coming up to me and saying quite aggressively that he wouldn't be able breathe with one.

And the points about the festival - yes, over-hyped and generally too much strain on the city centre (I live in Edinburgh). I know there's been more effort to spread venues across the city and it's been fascinating seeing the complaints in the local press about noise, parking etc from areas not used to it. Glad I'm still wfh as trying to get buses anywhere was generally a complete waste of time during the festival.

I really feel for you, OP. I’m in England and whilst I still feel slightly uneasy about other peoples’ reactions when I don’t wear a mask, I fully believe in my reasons for not doing so.

I find it truly bizarre the level of weight given to the need for a likely healthy person wearing a flimsy piece of fabric (in the vast majority of cases) to protect others. There are SO many other things people could and should be doing to improve their own personal health, but nothing is said on this. It is completely political.

[quote Ginandfantalemon]@pianolessons1

So if in that person's medical records it states they suffer anxiety, panic attacks, hyperventilation syndrome, etc. do you just tell them to put their mask on and get on with it. Anyone with anxiety or any other debilitating mental health issue knows that it can take years to get the proper treatment. Popping down to the surgery for a quick consultation on mask wearing just doesn't happen for these people.[/quote]
No, I'll talk them through what their concerns are - then maybe get them to try wearing one on the chin for a bit, then just over the mouth, then over the nose. I haven't yet found someone who is unable to. If someone had helped the OP to do this months ago, she might not be in the isolated state that she is now.

This simply isn't the case, unless, at least 50% of the people in one of the largest supermarkets in Edinburgh at 9pm'ish last night are exempt, not wearing their masks, and not displaying lanyards either.

What's the benefit of keeping the mask requirement in law then? That's actually lower than my experience in England where it's not mandated.

Although spread won't really be in supermarkets. The biggest threat will be nightclubs .........

@XDownwiththissortofthingX
The difference between me and the group of youngsters you saw bounding up and down the aisles in the supermarket is that I have a conscience. If I could wear a mask I would, and yes I have left the house, I just don't go into shops, but my family do, and so I know very few people are not wearing masks. Then huge number of people who are not wearing masks must be where you live but certainly not where I am.

@pianolessons1 but for the negligible proven benefit of wearing masks, this seems an unnecessary length for people to have to go to.

I really think people need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

I agree OP - I see only the occasional person without a mask. The majority of people do wear them

@Pianolessons1
I AM the original poster, and you make me sound like some sort of weirdo. I am not in an 'isolated state', I just stay away from public places as I struggle with masks and I'm not the only one. You make it sound like I should be sectioned if I wont wear one. My god, no wonder mental health cases are on the rise. Did you really help all these people or just scare them into wearing a mask.

[quote Ginandfantalemon]@XDownwiththissortofthingX
The difference between me and the group of youngsters you saw bounding up and down the aisles in the supermarket is that I have a conscience. If I could wear a mask I would, and yes I have left the house, I just don't go into shops, but my family do, and so I know very few people are not wearing masks. Then huge number of people who are not wearing masks must be where you live but certainly not where I am.[/quote]
Right, so if you know people are not wearing masks, do you then accept that this idea that you have, that everyone is going to see you without a mask and conclude it's because you are exempt, is wrong?

All they are going to do is think 'there is another person who has chosen not to wear a mask', that's assuming they think anything at all!

The scenario I witnessed last night appears to be the exact 'dream' scenario you are claiming would materialise if mask wearing was voluntary. i.e. more or less a straight split between mask and no mask, with absolutely nobody displaying a lanyard.

You might think I'm 'having a go' or something, I'm honestly not. I'm really, really concerned for you because it's clear to me that the picture you have inside your head of what it must look like right now, is out of date. Things have changed, especially in the last 24-48 hours. The problem as I see it, is that you are not going to accept this until you see it for yourself, but by your own admission, you won't go near shops, so this out of date idea you have is just going to stay in your head.

I totally, completely, understand your anxiety, and I also implicitly understand stigma, and self-stigma. I work with vulnerable people who exhibit it over and over. I promise you, I am not trying to push you into doing something you really don't feel you can do, I'm just trying to get you to come to the realisation that the picture you formed when you were last in shop, perhaps during a lockdown, is totally different to what is happening in shops right now. That's all.

I’m in Scotland and hate wearing a mask! I’ve just come back from lunch/shopping and saw plenty of people with lanyards, and others with no mask who presumably were exempt. My priority is to get in and out, and mask off as quickly as I can - my days of browsing are done for now - and I honestly don’t care what others are doing or why. I expect most people are similar really.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX
But anyone who knows me knows I'm not the type of person who would not wear a mask just because I have just chosen not to, that is, at the moment while they are legally mandated. If they were optional, and not legally mandated, like I said before, they wouldn't know one way or the other.

What's the benefit of keeping the mask requirement in law then? That's actually lower than my experience in England where it's not mandated

Honestly? I don't purport to know. What I do know, is that there is no detrimental effect to people who can do so continuing to wear masks in certain specific places.

Am I a mask zealot? No, absolutely not. I wear one myself, but I don't judge anybody who chooses not to, because I think evidence for any actual benefit from wearing masks at anything other than the peaks of public infection is scant, to the point whereby it might well yet be decided that it is utterly pointless, so no, I don't judge people who have decided it's not for them.

Although spread won't really be in supermarkets. The biggest threat will be nightclubs

Well I do admit that the first thing I said was that it made no sense, that if you are suggesting masks prevent infection, that you should wear one entering and leaving, wear one going to the loo, but take it off when you decide you want to dive onto the dancefloor and share close quarters with heavy breathing, perspiring, gyrating people.

That raised as quizzical eyebrow from me, but I didn't feel compelled to dive on to the internet and start mindlessly raging about totalitarian states, despots, dictators, and murderous regimes as a result.

@pianolessons1

Cant tell you how glad I am that you don't work in my GP surgery. Wft are you doing looking at someone's medical records, unless you are an actual Dr or nurse doing a consultation (by which time it's too late I'd already be in your office, seeing as.i can't cope with telephone appointments).

The way you say you behave would be enough to push me in to fight or flight at the very least, if not a complete meltdown, and then you'd find yourself in hot water as a complaint would be made.

Besides the fact that only the people I want to tell get told I'm autistic, other traumas from my life (that contribute to my being unable to wear a mask) do not appear on my gp records.

Are.you really prepared to get a smack in the face from someone you've traumatised with your "helpful" advice?? Because at least one of my autistic children would very likely do that if someone tried to persuade him to wear anything he didn't want to (and no he's not considered severely autistic, even though there's really no such thing as "mild" autism, if you really had such good medical knowledge you would know this and know that every autistic person is different and can cope with different things. One of my children copes well with a mask, other than trying to eat it, the rest.of us have trouble wearing certain clothes let alone masks)

Masks will also prevent the winter flu/noro bugs from overwhelming hospitals too, as well as Covid. Very sensible, small thing to do, big impact on society.

[quote Whatever9999]@pianolessons1

Cant tell you how glad I am that you don't work in my GP surgery. Wft are you doing looking at someone's medical records, unless you are an actual Dr or nurse doing a consultation (by which time it's too late I'd already be in your office, seeing as.i can't cope with telephone appointments).

The way you say you behave would be enough to push me in to fight or flight at the very least, if not a complete meltdown, and then you'd find yourself in hot water as a complaint would be made.

Besides the fact that only the people I want to tell get told I'm autistic, other traumas from my life (that contribute to my being unable to wear a mask) do not appear on my gp records.

Are.you really prepared to get a smack in the face from someone you've traumatised with your "helpful" advice?? Because at least one of my autistic children would very likely do that if someone tried to persuade him to wear anything he didn't want to (and no he's not considered severely autistic, even though there's really no such thing as "mild" autism, if you really had such good medical knowledge you would know this and know that every autistic person is different and can cope with different things. One of my children copes well with a mask, other than trying to eat it, the rest.of us have trouble wearing certain clothes let alone masks)[/quote]
I'm a HCP looking in the notes during a phone triage and having these discussions when arranging for people to come in F2F. I have been thanked by several people for helping them to wear masks