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JCVI expected to extend vaccine to 16 and 17 year olds.

205 replies

MareofBeasttown · 04/08/2021 08:42

Good news. As some of us predicted, the JCVI has changed its mind.
This is behind a paywall, but I read the whole article on Twitter ( which I can't seem to paste here).

Anyway, the headline is self-explanatory.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/03/mass-vaccination-children-against-covid-planned/

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 05/08/2021 09:10

@ineedaholidaynow

When DS was at Primary School only vulnerable children (from a health perspective) had the flu jab (nasal spray). Now all Primary school children are offered it, so I assume that is partly society benefit driven rather than just from the child’s health position. And this year they are offering it to all Secondary School children, although interestingly not the 16-17 year olds.

Someone up thread said offering COVID jabs to 16-17 year olds was to help GCSE year groups, but that won’t help some summer borns. I was 15 when I sat my O-levels and had only just celebrated my 16th birthday when I got my results.

Mine are summer born, too, but hopefully it will mean less in circulation/fewer cases. Personally ,I'd vote 12-17.
MareofBeasttown · 05/08/2021 09:15

DS isn't taking it because he thinks he will be seriously ill. He won't be. He is taking it because he has done 3 isolations this year, missed out on an important internship, and is doing 4 very tough A levels so he can get into the uni that he has dreamt of for the past 3 years ( uni admission test to get through as well ). The year above him was a wreck last year because half of them had Covid. Central London school and all boys take the Tube, so that increases risk too.

He does not want any further disruption and he has given up enough. I agree with him. Other teens may make different decisions, and they are free to.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 05/08/2021 09:17

There's a suggestion that the vaccine will be administered in schools. If that happens then it really needs to be given by year group rather than age otherwise it will be an admin nightmare.

SoOvethis · 05/08/2021 09:21

Actually I will just put the other childhood diseases complications that we vaccinate for here.
I see the childhood vaccines keeps getting used as an excuse for why it is totally acceptable and fine to vaccinate for Covid

Diphtheria
Diphtheria can be very serious. In children younger than 5 years old, as many as 1 out of 5 children who get diphtheria dies. About 1 out of 10 people who get diphtheria dies.

The coating in the back of the nose or throat can get so thick that it blocks the airway, so the person can’t breathe.

The diphtheria toxin can affect the heart, causing an abnormal heart rhythms and even heart failure. It can also affect the nerves and lead to paralysis (unable to move parts of the body).

Flu

Millions of children get sick with flu each year and thousands are hospitalized. CDC estimates that since 2010, between 7,000 and 28,000 children younger than 5 years old have been hospitalized for flu each year in the United States. Children with chronic conditions like asthma, diabetes, and disorders of the brain or nervous system, and children younger than 5 years old (and especially children younger than 2 years old) are more likely to end up in the hospital from flu.

Hep B
Hepatitis B can be very serious. Most people with a recent hepatitis B infection may feel sick for a few weeks to several months. Some people get over the illness. For other people, the virus infection remains active in their bodies for the rest of their life.

Although people with lifelong hepatitis B usually don’t have symptoms, the virus causes liver damage over time and could lead to liver cancer. There is no cure for hepatitis B, but treatment can help prevent serious problems.

Hib
Hib disease is very serious. Most children with Hib disease need care in the hospital. Even with treatment, as many as 1 out of 20 children with Hib meningitis dies. As many as 1 out of 5 children who survive Hib meningitis will have brain damage or become deaf.

Measles
Measles can be dangerous, especially for babies and young children.

For some children, measles can lead to:

Pneumonia (a serious lung infection)
Lifelong brain damage
Deafness
Death

Meningcoccal
Meningococcal meningitis and bloodstream infections can be very serious, even deadly. The infections progress quickly. Someone can go from being healthy to very ill in 48 hours or less. Even if they get treatment, about 10 to 15 out of 100 people with meningococcal disease will die from it. Long-term disabilities from having meningococcal disease include loss of limbs, deafness, nervous system problems, and brain damage.

Mumps

Mumps can be dangerous. Before there was a vaccine, mumps was one of the most common causes of deafness and meningitis. Mumps can also lead to encephalitis.

Polio
The risk of lifelong paralysis is very serious. Even children who seem to fully recover can develop new muscle pain, weakness, or paralysis as adults, 15 to 40 years later.

About 2 to 10 children out of 100 who have paralysis from polio die because the virus affects the muscles that help them breathe.

Pneumococcal
Pneumococcal disease ranges from mild to very dangerous. About 2,000 cases of serious disease (bacteremia, pneumonia with bacteremia, and meningitis) occur each year in children under 5 years old in the United States. These illnesses can lead to disabilities like deafness, brain damage, or loss of arms or legs. About 1 out of 12 children who get pneumococcal meningitis dies.

Rotavirus
Rotavirus can be very harmful. Diarrhea, vomiting, and fever can cause a loss of body fluids. This leads to dehydration, which can be very dangerous, especially for babies and young children. Some children need an IV (needle in their vein) in the hospital to replace lost fluids.

Rubella
Now this one doesn’t usually affect children as much but for pregnant women-

Infection during pregnancy can cause miscarriage, or birth defects like deafness, blindness, intellectual disability, heart defects, and liver or spleen damage.

Tetanus
Tetanus is very dangerous. It can cause breathing problems, muscle spasms, and paralysis (unable to move parts of the body). Muscle spasms can be strong enough to break a child’s spine or other bones.

It can take months to recover fully from tetanus. A child might need weeks of hospital care. As many as 1 out of 5 people who get tetanus dies.

Whooping cough
Whooping cough is most dangerous for babies and young children. In fact, babies younger than 1 year old who have whooping cough may:

Need to be cared for in the hospital
Develop pneumonia (a serious lung infection)
Have seizures
Suffer brain damage

Whooping cough can even be deadly. About 7 in 10 deaths from whooping cough are among babies younger than 2 months old. These babies are too young to get whooping cough shots.

@cherin now tell me which of these are similar to Covid for kids?

ineedaholidaynow · 05/08/2021 09:30

Looking at your examples of flu @SoOvethis it would appear from your figures that it is mainly the young children and those with asthma etc that tend to get hospitalised. When DS was at Primary School it was those children who got immunised. Now it is all Primary School children, so I assume it is partly for the child but also partly for societal benefit

MarshaBradyo · 05/08/2021 09:32

But did JCVI say anything re society benefit?

They have been clear it has to benefit the group - or considered this at least

Have they said more on this?

bumbleymummy · 05/08/2021 09:38

Are people considering testing for antibodies before vaccination? Many children are probably already immune at this stage.

MarshaBradyo · 05/08/2021 09:38

As I don’t think changing factor is that good of society has become part of it

Rather that confidence in data is stronger

ineedaholidaynow · 05/08/2021 09:39

@bumbleymummy but people seem to be able to get COVID more than once

bumbleymummy · 05/08/2021 09:55

No, the reinfection rate is very low according to PHE.

SoOvethis · 05/08/2021 10:11

@ineedaholidaynow

I will agree that vaccinating some of the kids is probably for the benefit of others but COVID doesn’t affect babies like the flu does. And If it all stays optional and vaccine passports are not introduced then I will agree that it can be considered similar.

SoOvethis · 05/08/2021 10:11

Don’t start with the reinfection bit! It is very rare. Less than 1.4%!

Piggywaspushed · 05/08/2021 10:14

They don't know this. Those figures are pre Delta.

Piggywaspushed · 05/08/2021 10:16

@MarshaBradyo

But did JCVI say anything re society benefit?

They have been clear it has to benefit the group - or considered this at least

Have they said more on this?

I thought JVT was uncharacteristically vague on that : he basically said 'we have to get this done before they get back to school'.
SoOvethis · 05/08/2021 10:17

No they said the delta number was 1.4% while it was even less before delta @Piggywaspushed

Piggywaspushed · 05/08/2021 10:17

Millions of children get sick with flu each year and thousands are hospitalized. CDC estimates that since 2010, between 7,000 and 28,000 children younger than 5 years old have been hospitalized for flu each year in the United States. Children with chronic conditions like asthma, diabetes, and disorders of the brain or nervous system, and children younger than 5 years old (and especially children younger than 2 years old) are more likely to end up in the hospital from flu.

Do you not think they will write almost exactly the same blurb when they coem up with one for covid??!

Piggywaspushed · 05/08/2021 10:17

Do you have a 16/17 year old ove?

ineedaholidaynow · 05/08/2021 10:18

Do we know why other countries are vaccinating children, for the children or for herd immunity/society?

Piggywaspushed · 05/08/2021 10:19

@noblegiraffe

There's a suggestion that the vaccine will be administered in schools. If that happens then it really needs to be given by year group rather than age otherwise it will be an admin nightmare.
Yesterday. JVT said it needed to be done 'before they get back'?
MarshaBradyo · 05/08/2021 10:23

Piggy ok thanks I thought it was JCVI but yes that is quite vague from JVT. I heard his bit about getting it done soon.

I did catch Andrew Pollard on LBC who is chair of JCVI and he cleared some stuff up, he sounded a bit miffed at Ben Kentish interpretation.

  • it was a timely review of data. A month I think apart which is how they do process
  • the changing factor was it had moved from low confidence to high confidence based on o/s data
  • this meant risk / benefit could be determined with higher confidence now rather than a month ago

No mention of society being a factor now not then and I don’t think it is based on above.

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2021 10:27

It was Sajid Javid who mentioned schools being part of the process www.tes.com/news/covid-jabs-could-be-part-school-vaccination-offer

The NAHT have said 'don't you dare drag us into this' www.tes.com/news/heads-must-not-be-made-police-student-covid-jabs

Piggywaspushed · 05/08/2021 10:31

I think that might be an ultimate aim but not for this cohort?

MarshaBradyo · 05/08/2021 10:53

@Piggywaspushed

I think that might be an ultimate aim but not for this cohort?
I think the benefit to group criteria is there for all ages, but data has to have high confidence before going ahead for 16 to 17.

This only just happened in last review.

Older age groups do get benefit and it’s not so close in consideration

Piggywaspushed · 05/08/2021 10:55

My ultimate aim post was in response to the vaccine being done in schools marsha!

MarshaBradyo · 05/08/2021 10:58

Oh right 😂

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