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Can't be vaccinated. What happens to me re work, travel etc?

146 replies

MrsFelicianoLopez · 30/07/2021 16:58

As the title says really. I am not having the Covid vaccine for medical reasons. Does anybody who works in government know exactly what the proposals are for people like me (I live in England) from September when the domestic Covid passports come in (fingers crossed they don't get through parliament!) please?

i.e. can my employer fire me because I'm not vaccinated? (ref. Grant Shapps today saying that he supports businesses who insist their employees have the vaccine). Will I ever be able to travel anywhere again?! If it's relevant, I have Covid antibodies thanks to having Covid earlier this year. I'm paying for private antibody tests on a monthly basis.

I really don't want this to turn into one of those anti-vaxxer threads .... I am not selfish, but I cannot have any of the vaccines as the risk to me is far far greater than catching Covid (from which I recovered just fine). I just want to know if there is actually a plan in place for those who cannot have the vaccine or whether they have been totally overlooked?

I would ask my MP but as he's Tobias Ellwood I doubt he gives a shit.

OP posts:
Porcupineintherough · 31/07/2021 12:36

@MrsBillyNoJagNoMates if you knew anything- anything at all - about living under communism you wouldn't make such stupid and offensive comments.

If this were a Communist country the government would be rounding up anti-vaxxers for "re-education". Fortunately in the UK you can believe and repeat almost any ill-informed shit you care to mention.

MrsBillyNoJagNoMates · 31/07/2021 12:43

@Cornettoninja

That's great than
I can than consider my travel to my home country and back to my country of residence to be my right than
Not a privilege
Covid jabbed or not, just have to follow quarantine rules
Thank you for acknowledging it.
Sorry to hear about you dad's stateless status though, must have been difficult to live with.

Jaxhog · 31/07/2021 12:49

I think you need some proper medical advice as to the actual risks you face. Also, you need help with your PTSD. Like it or not, by not being vaccinated you will potentially be putting others at risk.

My Mum suffers from multiple medical allergies and has also been rushed to hospital with anaphylactic shock. She had the Phizer vaccine with no problems.

MrsBillyNoJagNoMates · 31/07/2021 12:49

@Porcupineintherough

🤔
Would you care to elaborate which of my comments were offensive, stupid and ill-informed shit????

Jaxhog · 31/07/2021 13:04

@MaxNormal

Perhaps British people have not had to do this, but there are polio and meningitis vaccinations required for citizens of many developing countries, and TB tests required to enter the UK

I'm from a country with a very high rate of TB however I entered the UK without any requirement for checks. Many countries do lung screens rather than asking for vaccine proof (that was required when I got residency in a Middle Eastern country) for the simple reason that the BCG vaccine does not provide anything like sterilising immunity from contracting TB.

I do think some people are being very harsh here, by suggesting that the OP risk anaphalaxys and death, or basically shrugging and saying tough shit your choice. I can completely understand why OP turned up at the vaccination centre - there's this awful desperation at present between fear of catastrophic health consequences vs fear of catastrophic life consequences that makes those of us in that position feel utterly desperate.

It's not as simple as saying if your GP says you're officially exempt then fine otherwise it's just you making a choice and you need to suffer the conseqeunces. Medics aren't gods and people, especially with chronic health conditions, often know their own health and bodies best. Just think of how many threads there have been on here of people being completely dismissed and giving appalling medical treatment, for everything from thyroid issues, to childbirth injuries, to being sent home from A&E seriously unwell. You often have to advocate very hard for yourself and to get taken seriously.

And it's utterly mad that someone like the OP, who has had covid and has no reason to be seriously concerned about it, and who has previously had life-threatening adverse side effects from vaccinations, should even be considered as suitable to receive this vaccination. Because if it wasn't this highly politicised vaccine, no medic in their right minds would even suggest never mind attempt to insist on a medical intervention with that poor a risk benefit profile. It would be utterly poor practice, and unethical.

It is a truly horrible time for those of us in this position. I have genuinely sometimes thought oh well at least if I'm dead I won't have to worry about this any more.

Several of the people in my support group, who did chose to get the vaccine, have suffered relapses of their condition and I cannot go through that again. I just can't. And it is hurtful that there are a lot of people that, should my gp and consultant not agree with me (and there might well be tremendous managerial/political pressure not to grant exemptions), would be quite happy to see me, the OP and others like us live diminished, excluded lives on top of what we have already suffered.

I cannot face more months of neurological issues, pain, seizures, tendon breakages. My hasband cannot face more months of not being able to go to work and support us as he then has to care for me. I cannot lose the little life, as dimished as it is from the one I enjoyed previously, that I have worked so hard to build for myself after my old life was blown apart four years ago. Because when that happens, the gp is nowhere. Random people and their opinions online are nowhere.Most friends are nowhere. It's just DH and I in hell and alone.

I might never see my family again because of this. I never asked for any of this.

@MrsFelicianoLopez sorry about the derail. I think unfortunately unless people have lived it, they are generally not going to understand. It just feels so fucking unfair, we go through hell though no fault of our own and now this.

I feel for you, I really do. But how about the many people who will die as a result of being in contact with a Covid carrier? Are their lives worth less than yours?
MareofBeasttown · 31/07/2021 13:04

I don't agree that restricting the right of travel ( if there is such a right) of unvaccinated people in an unprecedented pandemic is in any way communist.

Viviennemary · 31/07/2021 13:10

I don't think its any worse a hell than having a familly member dying of Covid. I hope the restrictions get tougher. And what about the risk of starting Covid up again in a country that is on top of it.

MaxNormal · 31/07/2021 13:19

Are their lives worth less than yours?

But are they worth more?
Actually I shouldn't engage as this us exactly the kind of post that is so upsetting, the gist of which is basically, tough shit, you're unimportant.
But my life is important to me and those that love me.

On a more practical note we've also recently seen quite a lot of infection amongst the fully vaccinated so surely irresponsible to let them move and mingle with impunity?

MareofBeasttown · 31/07/2021 13:28

But the point is the fully vaccinated aren't being allowed to move and mingle with impunity! I am fully vaxxed and I can't visit my also fully vaxxed sister in the US. Or my family in many other countries.

Either allow all vaxxed people regardless of passport to travel, or don't allow anyone to travel. I cant understand why the vaxxed are lumped with the unvaxxed.

MaxNormal · 31/07/2021 13:35

Mare I was referring more to the domestic proposals (or those already in operation in eg France) but I totally agree with you that its shit that you can't see your family abroad. I have two brothers in a red list country.

Grenlei · 31/07/2021 13:37

You can still contract Covid having been vaccinated, I know someone who is fully vaccinated, has Covid and is quite unwell despite no underlying conditions.

The vaccine neither stops you getting it nor does it stop you passing it on.

Like the OP, I've had Covid. I had mild symptoms. I'm not having the vaccine (but unlike the OP I don't have a specific medical reason).

I completely disagree with the proposed Covid passports etc, it's a massive encroachment on our civil liberties and we should be hugely concerned by what we are sleepwalking into rather than the vaccinated gladhanding themselves and decrying anyone who hasnt been vaccinated.

Cornettoninja · 31/07/2021 13:44

[quote MrsBillyNoJagNoMates]@Cornettoninja

That's great than
I can than consider my travel to my home country and back to my country of residence to be my right than
Not a privilege
Covid jabbed or not, just have to follow quarantine rules
Thank you for acknowledging it.
Sorry to hear about you dad's stateless status though, must have been difficult to live with.[/quote]
No need to be sorry about my dad, he could have claimed citizenship in at least three countries and made the conscious choice not to.

Consider it however you want to, it doesn’t change the fact that every country has conditions of entry/exit and these are granted by privilege not right. It may be semantics but it’s an important point to distinguish, particularly if your life is set up internationally, not just for covid.

MareofBeasttown · 31/07/2021 14:05

The vaccine makes it far less likely you will get it or pass it on, though how likely is now on debate.. Perhaps eventually it will just be tests for everyone. But they arent accurate either. So I have no odea what the way forward is.

newnortherner111 · 31/07/2021 14:11

OP, it would not surprise me if Tobias Ellwood is one of the Tory MPs who would oppose the idea of Covid passports (if I can use that phrase). So probably might be worth contacting.

Dobbyafreeelf · 31/07/2021 14:15

I feel for you, I really do. But how about the many people who will die as a result of being in contact with a Covid carrier? Are their lives worth less than yours?

@Jaxhog what utter rubbish!!! You don't feel for her at all! Less than 1% of people who contract covid die with it. Not everyone who comes into contact with a carrier will catch it. You are talking about an infinitesimally small number of people. It's hypothetical bollocks and not reason to deny people their liberty. Especially when they have already had the illness and have at least some level of immunity to it.

DottyHarmer · 31/07/2021 14:26

But the OP is not one person - if you allow one person to self-certificate, or anyone who hasn’t been vaccinated to travel, then you have to allow everybody. Would you be ok with permitting a million unvaccinated tourists to visit this country?

MercyBooth · 31/07/2021 15:18

I had my first vaccine this week. Afterwards i was told to go outside and round the corner into a small marquee for 15 minutes. Just in case. The only other ones there with me were a 24 year old who had the vaccine just after me and his mate. I was fine and so was he but the marquee was right round the back away from the building.

riveted1 · 31/07/2021 15:24

@Grenlei

You can still contract Covid having been vaccinated, I know someone who is fully vaccinated, has Covid and is quite unwell despite no underlying conditions.

The vaccine neither stops you getting it nor does it stop you passing it on.

Like the OP, I've had Covid. I had mild symptoms. I'm not having the vaccine (but unlike the OP I don't have a specific medical reason).

I completely disagree with the proposed Covid passports etc, it's a massive encroachment on our civil liberties and we should be hugely concerned by what we are sleepwalking into rather than the vaccinated gladhanding themselves and decrying anyone who hasnt been vaccinated.

the vaccines have a >80% efficacy (i.e., >80% of vaccinated people will not get COVID compared to those unvaccinated)

If you don't have COVID, you can't pass it to anyone else. They therefore have a significant impact on both infection and transmission.

WanderingFruitWonderer · 31/07/2021 17:44

Hi OP, sending you lots of love Flowers You have my empathy and understanding. In your set of circumstances - having had Covid, and being at risk from the vaccine, I definitely wouldn't be wanting it either.
It's a scary situation this isn't it.
I've not yet been vaccinated, for a host of collective reasons I won't go into here, for fear of attack from other posters. Mental health is playing a major role though. Tbh, I've started to make my peace with a significantly curtailed life for a time to come. If vaccine passports end up being needed for art galleries, libraries, cinemas etc, then I'll just continue spending a lot of time at home, or going outside for walks, and to meet people outside. I've got used to it now anyway. But, I don't expect others to be content with such a lifestyle, and think the entire concept of domestic vaccine passports is utterly scandalous. I have less of a problem with it for overseas travel (though still think testing should be a valid alternative) but horrified by domestic passports. That's a totally different matter...

CrunchyCarrot · 31/07/2021 20:15

Well some good news, if you're not pro vaccine passports. According to the BBC the govt has decided against mandating University students being fully vaccinated in order to attend lectures or stay in halls of residence. The word is that the govt is losing the taste for 'covid passports'.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58040302

MRex · 31/07/2021 20:37

@MercyBooth

I had my first vaccine this week. Afterwards i was told to go outside and round the corner into a small marquee for 15 minutes. Just in case. The only other ones there with me were a 24 year old who had the vaccine just after me and his mate. I was fine and so was he but the marquee was right round the back away from the building.
That's a bit of a worry, hopefully people were popping round to check unseen! I'm surprised but pleased for you that you went for it. What made you decide in the end to get vaccinated despite your other concerns?
WanderingFruitWonderer · 31/07/2021 20:40

Thanks @CrunchyCarrot that's very good news indeed. I've been particularly horrified by the ageism against the young re vaccine passports. The idea of denying young people access to education unless they agree to a medical treatment, is utterly dreadful. Far too much has been asked of the young these last eighteen months already.

XenoBitch · 31/07/2021 20:49

@DottyHarmer

Needle phobia is imo not a valid exemption. Exemption should be on the grounds that the vaccine can kill or seriously harm you. Neither is “I’m worried about the vaccine” grounds for exemption.

Of course, if you don’t want the vaccine, that is indeed personal choice. But then don’t expect to be able to fly round the world. Some people need to think what if everybody did this? or, from a more selfish point of view, Would I be happy to sit next to someone on a long-haul flight with yellow fever who wouldn’t vaccinate because they had a needle phobia?

I have severe needle phobia... attempting to get the vaccine would be harmful to both me and the people trying to deliver it. Not all phobic people faint when they see a needle. Some genuinely fear for their lives and go into fight mode.
Canigooutyet · 31/07/2021 22:14

Just stumbled across this with regards the the passport. Interesting reading.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?q=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/999408/COVID-Status-Certification-Review-Report.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwj80-zHm47yAhUjQkEAHUa2AbM4ChAWegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw19WmVbY2yNAT3k3XggZ_wF" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/url?q=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/999408/COVID-Status-Certification-Review-Report.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwj80-zHm47yAhUjQkEAHUa2AbM4ChAWegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw19WmVbY2yNAT3k3XggZ_wF

Canigooutyet · 31/07/2021 22:20

Ethical Vegans might also be exempt as it's a protected characteristic

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/vegans-exempt-compulsory-covid-vaccines-workplace-b948403.html

Details about the case

www.globalworkplaceinsider.com/2020/01/ethical-veganism-is-a-protected-characteristic/