Can't be vaccinated. What happens to me re work, travel etc?

[MrsFelicianoLopez]

As the title says really. I am not having the Covid vaccine for medical reasons. Does anybody who works in government know exactly what the proposals are for people like me (I live in England) from September when the domestic Covid passports come in (fingers crossed they don't get through parliament!) please?

i.e. can my employer fire me because I'm not vaccinated? (ref. Grant Shapps today saying that he supports businesses who insist their employees have the vaccine). Will I ever be able to travel anywhere again?! If it's relevant, I have Covid antibodies thanks to having Covid earlier this year. I'm paying for private antibody tests on a monthly basis.

I really don't want this to turn into one of those anti-vaxxer threads .... I am not selfish, but I cannot have any of the vaccines as the risk to me is far far greater than catching Covid (from which I recovered just fine). I just want to know if there is actually a plan in place for those who cannot have the vaccine or whether they have been totally overlooked?

I would ask my MP but as he's Tobias Ellwood I doubt he gives a shit.

Why does there even need to be an exemption though? People are spectacularly missing the point and the worrying road we are being led down.
This vaccine is not needed for the vast majority of the under 55’s based on known serious illness and mortality figures so why does everyone have to be vaccinated? Being vaccinated doesn’t stop transmission so there’s no argument there and herd immunity can equally be found through the natural (and frankly more robust multi armed) response of one’s immune system. If you don’t wish to take the risk that you might be one of the few people who’s immune system doesn’t overcome covid itself then have the vaccine but it should be and always should remain a personal choice. There should be no stigma, no labelling as anti vax and no segregation from society.

Covid passports achieve absolutely nothing and should not be welcomed or accepted as the norm.

Absolutely. If you need a pass for something then it’s hardly “freedom”

You have my massive sympathies ( I know there not much use but anyway). I have a friend (not in the Uk) and she has had a bad reaction to being vaccinated. She will get a medical exemption apparently. I don’t know if that is possible in the Uk bit maybe it’s worth looking around for a a doctor that would be willing to provide such a thing should it be necessary (sadly I think that might be quite a tough ask). My body my choice doesn’t seem to apply for Covid.

As a poster said above, what you're actually asking is how to convince your GP to say you don't need it. There will be a system for people genuinely exempt but that is a vanishingly small section of society.

Regarding international travel, you may find insurance an issue, regardless of any exemption certificate, at least in the short term.

Basically OP you are ‘fooked’.

I have followed the US system of exemptions and there was a case of a boy who was in a wheelchair from an injury caused by a particular vaccine. He got transverse myelitis, and when they mandated another vaccine for school they would not let him off, the only exempted him from the vaccine that actually caused the injury.

Medical exemptions without proof of prior injury that has a causal link is like a unicorn, it ain't gonna happen.

Aozora13

For travel, lots of countries require you to prove you’ve had a yellow fever jab before entry and you can apply for an exemption letter if you can’t have it for medical reasons. I imagine it’ll be the same for covid. Maybe in combination with a negative test.

I am sorry - know this is not the point of this thread - but keep seeing this brought up again and again and again.
So I checked
There are 20 countries where Yellow fever vaccine is mandatory to enter
I would not call that 'a lot of countries' as that is about 10%
It is just presented by NHS and Travel Clinics as many countries
Oh and by loads of posts on this board

@MrsBillyNoJagNoMates

Aozora13

For travel, lots of countries require you to prove you’ve had a yellow fever jab before entry and you can apply for an exemption letter if you can’t have it for medical reasons. I imagine it’ll be the same for covid. Maybe in combination with a negative test.

I am sorry - know this is not the point of this thread - but keep seeing this brought up again and again and again.
So I checked
There are 20 countries where Yellow fever vaccine is mandatory to enter
I would not call that 'a lot of countries' as that is about 10%
It is just presented by NHS and Travel Clinics as many countries
Oh and by loads of posts on this board

Yellow Fever is also a lot more deadlier than Covid. WHO estimates 200,000 cases of yellow fever worldwide each year, resulting in 30,000 deaths.

@Tigertigertigertiger

It seems you have made up your mind, but in the clinics I work in, previous anaphylaxis is not a contraindication to getting the vaccine. We have adrenaline on hand in every clinic and I have vaccinated several people with history of anaphylaxis without problems.

This is a ridiculous thing to say. Regardless of if there is adrenaline ready or the vaccine is given in a hospital setting, the risk of DEATH because of the vaccine is still there. If there is a higher chance OP will die from a reaction than she would from covid then any sensible person wouldn't have the vaccine. The same as for any other medical procedure, you weigh up the risks.

As much as people on here like to profess they have had the vaccine for society, they have not. They have had it for themselves and when that risk is flipped I'm sure plenty other people wouldn't have it either.

MrsFelicianoLopez

I am really sorry for you being in your position
I fully understand how it feels as going through the same
Sadly, from what I could find out on line, it looks like everyone over 18 CAN have covid vaccine in this country.
I can't find any list of conditions where the jab would be contraindicated - please can someone prove me wrong???
My DS with the same issues as me - and not living in UK - has a medical exemption certificate which clearly states what she can do and when she needs a negative covid test. All clearly stated before the vaccinated got exempt from quarantine etcetc
Of course it is only currently valid for her in her country but it is very useful for everyday life /arrival from holidays etc

XenoBitch

Yellow Fever is also a lot more deadlier than Covid. WHO estimates 200,000 cases of yellow fever worldwide each year, resulting in 30,000 deaths.

Oh yes, fully agree there
My DH is from a country where the yellow fever jab is advisory and none of his family / friends are in this 'must have the covid jab or I will die' frenzy
Or ' won't be your friend unless you get vaccinated'
Or 'you selfish granny killer' when considering your own health to be your own priority

I would hope there would be a part on the digital passport for your medical professional who has advised against vaccination to upload an exemption?
I'm not sure they'll allow people to decide they are exempt themselves
Doesn't help for travel though as countries can set own rules, don't have to let unvaccinated people in

@cheekymover2021 I’m not sure which part of what I said you find ridiculous.
Previous anaphylaxis is NOT considered a contraindication to getting the vaccine.

I have vaccinated over 4000 people and have a little knowledge of the subject.

So it’s unlikely OP will be be able to get any proof of being medically exempt from vaccination.

Those are the facts . You can call them ridiculous if you like .

I have no knowledge of whether proof of vaccination will be an ongoing requirement for travel.

@Tigertigertigertiger

Vaccinating 4000 people does not make you a medical expert in allergies or immunology I'm afraid. Nor does it make you able to judge other people for the choices they make for their own bodies.

[quote Tigertigertigertiger]@cheekymover2021 I’m not sure which part of what I said you find ridiculous.
Previous anaphylaxis is NOT considered a contraindication to getting the vaccine.

I have vaccinated over 4000 people and have a little knowledge of the subject.

So it’s unlikely OP will be be able to get any proof of being medically exempt from vaccination.

Those are the facts . You can call them ridiculous if you like .

I have no knowledge of whether proof of vaccination will be an ongoing requirement for travel.[/quote]
Someone with a previous anaphylactic reaction will be justifiably terrified about getting another. Why is mental health not considered a reason for exemption? Some MN members have already said that the thought of the vaccine is giving them panic attacks and sleepless nights.

@XenoBitch the wording in the care home legislation is ""that for clinical reasons [they] should not be vaccinated with any authorised vaccine". Presumably if the mental health barriers were of such significance that the individual "should not be vaccinated" then they would be covered by that exemption.

However, unlike mask exemptions, people need to be able to evidence their exemption. I'm assuming a letter from a psychiatrist/other mental health professional stating the position would suffice? If you said to me that having to produce such a letter is hugely intrusive then I would entirely agree. Mandating vaccines - whether in care homes or more broadly - is a hot mess of civil rights infringements and confidentiality issues.

That, of course, assumes that any further UK legislation increasing the settings in which vaccines are required has similar wording on exemptions to the care home legislation. That seems likely, but is of course an unknown right now.

What other countries will allow as exemptions - if they allow them at all - is a total unknown, and likely to vary country by country (and week by week...)

@XenoBitch and @cheekymover2021 I’m not sure why your arguing with @Tigertigertigertiger; she’s not the one making the rules she’s simply pointing out that if the OP wants to pursue an exemption due to anaphylaxis that she might find it very difficult because it’s not a contraindication. Anything beyond that basic fact will have to be discussed with a consultant who may, or may not, be able to provide her with a warranted exemption.

OP this may be one you need to bide your time with. This is all very new so amendments will be made to proposed policies to account for ‘what ifs’. If there isn’t one that covers what you need then you can seek clarification from the body overseeing implementation, which doesn’t exist yet. I think you would struggle getting something in black and white right now because nothing has been officially announced and you’re looking to provide evidence for something that no one is asking for right now iyswim.

@m0therofdragons

Our hospital hub only gives vaccines to those at higher risk of an allergic reaction. Only 2 out of thousands led to a reaction and one is most likely a faint from sight of needle rather than allergy but we monitored them for 12 hours until happy they were fine. Being allergic to one vaccine so not taking another is like being allergic to food so not eating but you’ve decided you’re right over advice anyway so really your question is “how can I persuade my gp to say I’m exempt even though I’m not?”

Wow, you are really rude and unsympathetic aren't you?!

Have you ever suffered from anaphylaxis? Been resuscitated? Multiple times?? You. Literally. Suffocate. And. It. Is. Not. Always. Possible. To. Resuscitate. You.

Why on EARTH would I risk this when I've already had Covid and suffered absolutely no complications whatsoever? I worked (from home) throughout; it was a bad cold and I felt tired. I have antibodies.

It's attitudes like yours that make me want to throw myself out of a window. I have tried to go for the vaccine but I literally froze in the car park and could not walk in to the GP surgery. It's called PTSD.

Wish I hadn't started this thread now.

@MrsFelicianoLopez You have every right to say no, I think MN has a higher rate of intolerance towards medical choice than people in real life. Or certainly people in my social circle (some medical but all intelligent people who can critically review risk), have agreed that's it's personal choice and that the vaccine is NOT the best solution for every single person.

I would definitely write to your local MP and ask. He's paid plenty to give a shit!

@MrsBillyNoJagNoMates

Aozora13

For travel, lots of countries require you to prove you’ve had a yellow fever jab before entry and you can apply for an exemption letter if you can’t have it for medical reasons. I imagine it’ll be the same for covid. Maybe in combination with a negative test.

I am sorry - know this is not the point of this thread - but keep seeing this brought up again and again and again.
So I checked
There are 20 countries where Yellow fever vaccine is mandatory to enter
I would not call that 'a lot of countries' as that is about 10%
It is just presented by NHS and Travel Clinics as many countries
Oh and by loads of posts on this board

Perhaps British people have not had to do this, but there are polio and meningitis vaccinations required for citizens of many developing countries, and TB tests required to enter the UK. Many international students entering the US from developing countries also have to provide a vast range of vaccination proofs ranging from MMR to DPT, and in some cases get revaccinated to provide recent proof. I know students who have tried to get exemptions from these vaccinations for various reasons, including mental health, but they have been unsuccessful.

I do not believe travel exemptions will be easy to get because quite rightly, Vietnam, say, which has done a fantastic job so far at restraining Covid, does not want to start all over again down that path.

Agree with pp.

Would you be happy with people travelling to the UK with exemptions from vaccination against diseases we have eradicated or never had here ? And it might not be just a couple of individuals - it could be hundreds of thousands over a year.

This is where individual freedom bumps up against harm to others. By all means refuse the jab, but consequently take any restrictions resulting from this on the chin.

I have tried to go for the vaccine but I literally froze in the car park and could not walk in to the GP surgery.

Why did you try and get the vaccine if you're medically exempt?

There will be a medical exemption certificate for the genuine cases where you can't have the vaccine for medical reasons, so don't worry, you'll be fine if this is what your doctors have told you.

If your doctors haven't led this, then it isn't medical exemption & yes you'll be affected, but that's a personal decision, rather than medical exemption & is as it should be imho

& that's not to disbelieve your reasons, but I do know rRL friends who feign medical exemption, when it's bollocks, they are just antivaxxers

Many EU countries are currently using a three pronged strategy: you can enter if you're fully vaxxed, if you can prove you had covid in the last 6 months, or if you have a recent negative test (whether LFT or PCR is up to the country itself). Then there are the hardcore quarantine options. There are murmurs that the negative test option will be removed once all adults have had the chance to be fully vaxxed, but I don't think any decisions have been made yet. The UK is already at a disadvantage by not participating in the EU covpass system because entry to each country will have to be negotiated individually, and without some sort of passport system it's surely going to be tricky. At the moment there don't seem to be any special rules for people who are exempted (because the initial vac programmes are still running) but I imagine they will have to provide extra tests as long as they have an exemption cert that is accepted in the country they're travelling to. Visiting another country is a privilege not a right, after all.