Can't be vaccinated. What happens to me re work, travel etc?

[MrsFelicianoLopez]

As the title says really. I am not having the Covid vaccine for medical reasons. Does anybody who works in government know exactly what the proposals are for people like me (I live in England) from September when the domestic Covid passports come in (fingers crossed they don't get through parliament!) please?

i.e. can my employer fire me because I'm not vaccinated? (ref. Grant Shapps today saying that he supports businesses who insist their employees have the vaccine). Will I ever be able to travel anywhere again?! If it's relevant, I have Covid antibodies thanks to having Covid earlier this year. I'm paying for private antibody tests on a monthly basis.

I really don't want this to turn into one of those anti-vaxxer threads .... I am not selfish, but I cannot have any of the vaccines as the risk to me is far far greater than catching Covid (from which I recovered just fine). I just want to know if there is actually a plan in place for those who cannot have the vaccine or whether they have been totally overlooked?

I would ask my MP but as he's Tobias Ellwood I doubt he gives a shit.

@MaxNormal Yes, it does - I know exactly what you mean. (And I might have been posting under an old username to be honest! )

I don't even have a consultant. Several of my reactions took place when I was working overseas so the NHS does not accept that they happened.

I feel totally screwed if I'm honest.

I'm glad you're seeing your consultant. Hopefully by September things will look a bit clearer re the blasted Covid passport. Some clarity either way would be helpful wouldn't it?!

It seems you have made up your mind, but in the clinics I work in, previous anaphylaxis is not a contraindication to getting the vaccine.
We have adrenaline on hand in every clinic and I have vaccinated several people with history of anaphylaxis without problems.

You will need to be officially exempted - hopefully your gp can help with this and that should be ok for anything in the uk.
Unfortunately other countries’ requirements vary wildly and the uk government cannot do anything about that. Some countries will accept a pcr instead of a vaccine.

I feel your pain as I’m in a similar situation in a way- vaccinated but by a vaccine which is not approved anywhere. I’ve now got an exemption barcode for anything I need in the UK

Eventually there will have to be some kind of international agreement on situations like this but I doubt it will be for some months yet

Ah okay @MrsFelicianoLopez I feel better about my terrible memory then!
I wish they'd just believe us. I had the joys of complete disbelief initially from my then-gp surgery and it compounded my trauma tremendously.

Would seeking a private consultant be an option for you do you think? I suppose it's hard to know what the best thing to do is at this stage, the uncertainly is very hard. I really hope that you and I both have clarity by autumn.
I have seen some stuff on twitter today about self-cert exemptions in England but no idea if that means anything useful yet:
twitter.com/mattcampbell911/status/1421122128183705607

@Frazzled2207

You will need to be officially exempted - hopefully your gp can help with this and that should be ok for anything in the uk. Unfortunately other countries’ requirements vary wildly and the uk government cannot do anything about that. Some countries will accept a pcr instead of a vaccine.

I feel your pain as I’m in a similar situation in a way- vaccinated but by a vaccine which is not approved anywhere. I’ve now got an exemption barcode for anything I need in the UK

Eventually there will have to be some kind of international agreement on situations like this but I doubt it will be for some months yet

That's interesting, I lost track of the Novovax activities. Is it a special QR code within your NHS app covid pass? Does it count you officially as double vaccinated for isolation purposes? And did you ever get a Moderna dose?

They need to think of something better than self cert. Look at what happened with masks.

The care home legislation (www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/891/made) has an exemption for people who can producer evidence "that for clinical reasons [they] should not be vaccinated with any authorised vaccine".

I think your GP is going to be key here. If they agree that you should not have the vaccine, then you shouldn't have an issue. If they think you are not medically prevented from having it then you're going to be in some difficulty.

@PinkDaffodil2

Hep B vaccination is a requirement for medical school, and each stage of employment your vaccine / immunity history is checked. Only about 1 in a million are allergic to HepB vaccine so I don’t think there’s much precedent for doctors not having it. If you don’t have a measurable antibody course they repeat the course of vaccination and monitor closely, plus repeat again if any exposure. I’ve not heard of anyone in the relevant jobs being deemed unable to have the vaccine so not sure how that would play out. Medical schools would take a dim view I imagine as it would be rubbish for everyone involved if you trained for 6 years then we’re unemployable.

I'm not sure of the relevance of this to the OP, but...

Hep B vaccination is only relevant for EPP clearance. Not all jobs that doctors do involve EPPs. So doctors who have not had it are not unemployable.

There is an alternative to vaccination, which is covered in paragraphs 31 and 37-40 at assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/382152/health_clearance_tuberculosis_hepatitis_hiv.pdf. This includes for individuals who are Hepatitis B positive (for whom vaccination is clearly too late). In essence, you have regular blood tests to prove that you're not infectious.

Hepatitis B vaccination is not (and never has been) mandatory in any branch of medicine. EPP clearance is required in some specialities, including my own) but that can be obtained other ways than vaccination. In practice, we pretty much all have the vaccine because it's simply the norm, and less hassle than having to have a regular blood test.

This worries me too. Family member has had adverse reactions to previous vaccines so isn't having the covid one.

But what then? What will be deemed enough of an adverse reaction? What about the mental health from worrying about this?

It's a minefield and no one's bothering about it.

Don’t think the Amish do much international travelling.

@Itsprobablynotcominghome

Don’t think the Amish do much international travelling.

Reply fail @XenoBitch re: not having the app

@Itsprobablynotcominghome

Don’t think the Amish do much international travelling.

Not sure what that has to do anything, much less my comment about not having the app.

@felulageller I agree. I had my first vaccine this week but my stance on vaccine passports hasnt changed. I dont agree with having to show "your papers" to do something here in the UK.

This is completely unfair on those who cannot have or dont want the vaccine. And as usual mental health takes a back seat.

I don't think it should be a condition of employment, whether it's a disability or if you don't want the vaccine is irrelevant, it simply shouldn't.

Our hospital hub only gives vaccines to those at higher risk of an allergic reaction. Only 2 out of thousands led to a reaction and one is most likely a faint from sight of needle rather than allergy but we monitored them for 12 hours until happy they were fine. Being allergic to one vaccine so not taking another is like being allergic to food so not eating but you’ve decided you’re right over advice anyway so really your question is “how can I persuade my gp to say I’m exempt even though I’m not?”

The poundshop Rod Stewart who owns Pimlico Plumbers makes my teeth itch.

@m0therofdragons Im allergic to bananas so dont eat them. If someone is allergic to food its usually a specific food.

If they have an exemption clause it will be for those medically assessed as exempt. It's unlikely to be a self assessment as that would be open to anyone just playing the system.

In the U.K. I suspect for many events, bar very high risk areas such as festivals and clubs, you will continue to be able to use a negative test to get your Covid pass.

For travel it will depend on what the other countries decide. We can't set their rules for them.

Re your exemption - I guess it will be depending on whether your doctor/consultant etc will agree that you are within an official exemption category or not. They'll make that decision based on risk factors for your health history and any medical conditions you have.

@MercyBooth exactly so if you’re allergic to one vaccine you won’t necessarily be allergic to a totally different vaccine in the same way that being allergic to bananas doesn’t make you allergic to all fruit.

@MRex
Novavax participants now (only just) have the domestic pass sorted. Which we’re told is ok for exempting us from self isolation or quarantine where appropriate.
There is also a travel pass but it’s only good for Greece. Had one Moderna now so hopefully out of this mess by mid September as are many other participants.

Midwives have to have certain vaccines - I only learned this recently when my friend (whose mum is an anti vaxxer has had to have vaccines in order to become a midwife). It’s non negotiable. I honestly had no idea but it’s totally standard.

My opinion is though there should be no exemptions, you eithier force everyone or not.

The problem is that overall the risk to you developing further RA, or anaphylaxis is seen as collateral damage from a public health or greater good perspective. The argument will be that Covid is more dangerous to you than the vaccine could be.
Are you vegan by any chance?

www.nhsx.nhs.uk/covid-19-response/using-the-nhs-covid-pass/#exemptions

OP, I don't expect to change your mind but I had one of the first batches of Astra Zeneca, and I nearly died a few years ago after taking Penecillin. The Covid doctor was a bit anxious and had to consult with pharmacist and I had to sit for an hour after to be observed for any reaction but other than a sore arm I had no reaction to either jab. However, as you have had Covid and are not worried about getting it, I see your dilemma.