Only 300 people under 40 have died. Source for all UK Covid-19 deaths broken down by age - where to find?

[lightattheendofthetunnel2021]

I heard from a senior contact in industry, who knows some of the most prominent figureheads for the pandemic response in the UK, that to date, less than 300 people aged under 40 have died since the start of the pandemic.

Other countries have very transparent data on this where deaths are broken down in small age brackets and by absolute numbers (not as a % of the total number of deaths or % of population). Is there something similar here? If not, why not?

My mother is so brain washed she won't even believe me when I quote her figures and show them from the ONS site.

She believes the new reporters when they were showing ICU wards and saying it was all younger people.

She went from being common sense driven to terrified of covid back in January, I've given up trying to talk to her about it

@Crazycrazylady

What age are you op. Under 40 by any chance ?

She’s already said she’s 55

A quarter of all adults have an 'underlying condition'.

Probably most people have family members who have underlying conditions they don't know about, people tend not to broadcast this stuff.

If the argument is we're happy to go back to the days of communicable diseases devastating families and hugely reducing life expectancy for the population as a whole, then we might as well have that discussion. Most countries have decided to try and avoid that.

My Mum had her family devastated by TB as a child. Her sister (aged 7) and father (just over 40) died plunging the entire family into poverty. It had a long lasting effect on even those family members unaffected by TB (some of the rest of them caught it and needed to have long term antibiotic therapy as children). Covid is the same, for every person who dies, there are multiple knock on effects.

And it's largely avoidable - if you look at so many countries who've managed to keep deaths low by (mainly) excellent contact tracing while infection levels low (backward, in person, contact tracing too). Things like proper ventilation in workplaces and schools, mask wearing. Their economies are better off too. With proper investment in public health this would have been possible here too. Last summer, infections were super low and we could have done this.

Why do people have to react so childishly? "Tell that to such and such" and "I don't think my next door neighbour would agree". It is such a juvenile response. It reminds me of those kids at school, you'd mention that you were going to see your nan on Saturday and someone would respond "oh thanks for that, I don't have a nan". It's incredibly immature.

Is it not possible to have a rational discussion about actual statistics without this?

@QueenofKattegat

Why do people have to react so childishly? "Tell that to such and such" and "I don't think my next door neighbour would agree". It is such a juvenile response. It reminds me of those kids at school, you'd mention that you were going to see your nan on Saturday and someone would respond "oh thanks for that, I don't have a nan". It's incredibly immature.

Is it not possible to have a rational discussion about actual statistics without this?

Couldn't agree more but sadly this sort of thing is all over social media - see also Twitter.

I can't decide whether the sort of people who do it are purposely trying to shut someone up for what ever reason or just trying to make them else feel bad. Probably a bit of both.

Some people are just weird.

'them' not 'them else' LOL !!!!

@QueenofKattegat

Why do people have to react so childishly? "Tell that to such and such" and "I don't think my next door neighbour would agree". It is such a juvenile response. It reminds me of those kids at school, you'd mention that you were going to see your nan on Saturday and someone would respond "oh thanks for that, I don't have a nan". It's incredibly immature.

Is it not possible to have a rational discussion about actual statistics without this?

Tbf, I find comments effectively discarding as "but they had underlying conditions" thousands of deaths, thousands of bereaved families, slightly more offensive.

But we've come to expect nothing more empathetic from certain names on MN over the last 16 months.

If the “only” word was being used for groups other than the old and vulnerable I think there would be a lot of outrage. Particularly from the people who use it when describing anyone but themselves.

But it’s good to see the coronavirus regulars complaining about their right to debate being obstructed by people debating with them. If you want free speech be prepared to have people with equal right to free speech questioning what you say and why you say it.

@Porcupineintherough

"Only" 23 people under 40 died in the Manchester Arena bombing (22 if you dont count the bomber) and we consider that a tragedy.

It is indeed, a tragedy. But we didn't have a knee jerk response to close down all pop concerts and other high attendance venues, did we?

@LemonTT

If the “only” word was being used for groups other than the old and vulnerable I think there would be a lot of outrage. Particularly from the people who use it when describing anyone but themselves.

But it’s good to see the coronavirus regulars complaining about their right to debate being obstructed by people debating with them. If you want free speech be prepared to have people with equal right to free speech questioning what you say and why you say it.

I completely agree that would be a disgraceful attitude, but to be honest I'm yet to see a single person actually saying 'thousands of deaths, nah, it's only old/sick people dying etc so it doesn't matter'. What I do see though is lots of people criticising others for having that attitude because that is how they've misunderstood their comment/post.

However, I am very happy to be corrected if you or anyone else can point me to comments where people have actually said it doesn't matter if older or vulnerable people die as I don't spend a great deal of time on social media and for all I know it could be rife.

Certainly not heard anyone voice that sort of opinion in real life.

[quote lightattheendofthetunnel2021]@AlmostSummer21

Bit uncalled for, isn't it. I only asked for data - yes, a bit of a provocative title, perhaps, but why are we kept in the dark when many other countries are given much more granular, easily-accessible data. Or do we, in the UK, prefer to have wool pulled over our eyes?

Just to clarify, I'm a massive vaccine fan but I do think we need to take a step back and, actually, we may need to look at the data, excess mortality etc etc in 2-3 years time to evaluate which of the measures were necessary and/or made a difference. But that's for another time...[/quote]
No, not uncalled for.

The data is there, you've been directed to it, some of us have been looking at it for at least 18 months.

You're making statements about us being happy to have the wool pulled over our eyes, when we're not...

People are already looking at excess death data & that will carry on.

I'm just not sure why you think your bringing up something new or have though about things that no one else has?!

@ACreakingGateNeverStops

Hi OP,

I've been reading MN for years but your post has finally made me join because I think this is the sort of data you might find useful and I think the pile on to ridicule you is shocking:

www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

It's from the NHS and it details all the people who have covid on their death certificate since March 2020 and who have died in hospital. You have to scroll down about half way and each day can be downloaded as an excel file. There is also a weekly update file that shows how many have died, which health trust, age and if they had any underlying health conditions.

Sadly the one thing it doesn't show is death related to BMI which I think would make very interesting reading.

I assume all the other deaths that don't appear in the NHS data have occurred in care settings and so have been older adults and those with serious health problems - although I'm sure someone will be along in minute to tell me about their sister who is only 30 but chooses to live in a care home because she loves spending time with older people so much and now she is seriously ill with covid etc etc etc....

I find it somewhat reassuring to see that since the start of the pandemic just over 700 people with no underlying health conditions have died from covid.

This is where I add the caveats that:

• It's still a tragedy for those 700 and their families
• People with underlying health conditions matter too
• Older peoples lives matter too
• Long covid etc etc. These points usually go without saying but I'm going to mention them anyway.

I'm sure I've missed mentioning an important caveat that someone will pick up on and use it as a stick to beat me with

Anyway, long post for my first ever MN post. I hope you find this data useful OP and anyone else who wants to look at it and I hope my link works

Thank you for your kind and helpful note. Exactly what I was looking for. I'm not wanting to trivialise deaths at all but I'm also naturally someone who likes to focus on the positive and seeing these numbers, I feel, has reassured me.

I'm 55, female and someone with an underlying condition which meant that I have been receiving the flu jab for years. It doesn't interfere with my daily life but I was asked to shield (not as an extremely vulnerable) in the first lockdown. Having seen data elsewhere, especially the breakdown on numbers in ICU with my condition and who were female, meant that I looked at my relative risk and made the decision that although I will follow the rules as given, I no longer was particularly concerned for me and so did no longer have to live in fear. I just wish the same for others who may be relying on the data that is branded about and live lives in a constant state of anxiety, when perhaps unnecessary.

The reason for the title was (a) it was the only metric I had and given that lately the reason for not relaxing restrictions was because the under 40s had not been jabbed to the same extent and (b) because I was looking for data on the other age groups.

Thanks again @ACreakingGateNeverStops

They don't say it like that word for word on here either. But there's a lot of "my mum is 82 and doesn't want me in lockdown for her sake". They even have their own hidden in plain sight ageist/disablist/mask refusing/restriction breaking/I am done with this long-running thread. Nasty pieces of work.

The figures of deaths by age since the start of the pandemic are updated every day here for England: coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths?areaType=nation%26areaName=England#card-deaths_within_28_days_of_positive_test_by_age_and_sex.
This is a link from the main statistics site: coronavirus.data.gov.uk/, click through deaths and select England.
There is no way that these figures could be more accessible that I can think of.
If you want to find figures for the other UK nations, then look at their reports.

lightattheendofthetunnel2021 you're very welcome

OP- seeing @MRex has reminded me, if you're interested in facts and figures and the science and data, the long running threads are very informative.

Those dismissing deaths as 'well, they had underlying issues' might want to consider what they actually mean by an underlying health condition.

I have an 'underlying health condition' which makes me vulnerable to covid.

The underlying health condition is a form of inflammatory arthritis and the medication which accompanies that. My arthritis wouldn't be something that would normally shorten my life span.

As it happened I did catch covid, I was ill, I was in hospital and did get an unfortunate complication which will be with me for life but unrelated to arthritis.

But for some reason with covid had I died at that point then I'd have just been one of those people lots of posters are so readily able to dismiss 'over 40 with an underlying health condition.'

Oh and fwiw it's not just death that can be the issue with covid.
Covid has left me with a medical condition which required two lots of medication daily. Covid had me rushed to hospital with a very real risk of stroke or heart attack, or blood clots which could have caused them as well. Covid has left me with ongoing health issues several months on. And that was only a moderate case of covid.

But never mind, eh? I've got an underlying health condition - it's fine, I'm one of the 'others' so, for some posters it seems, probably dispensable.

Porcupineintherough
"Only" 23 people under 40 died in the Manchester Arena bombing (22 if you dont count the bomber) and we consider that a tragedy. 
It is indeed, a tragedy. But we didn't have a knee jerk response to close down all pop concerts and other high attendance venues, did we?

We did short term, for a temporary period of time whilst risk assessments were made and restrictions put in place, some of which are still in place. I went to concerts not too long after and there was a massive increase in security and checks, no external doors were allowed to be open, no bags were allowed, etc. Some of the restrictions out in place are ongoing, to increase public safety at events.

@lightattheendofthetunnel2021

I heard from a senior contact in industry, who knows some of the most prominent figureheads for the pandemic response in the UK, that to date, less than 300 people aged under 40 have died since the start of the pandemic.

Other countries have very transparent data on this where deaths are broken down in small age brackets and by absolute numbers (not as a % of the total number of deaths or % of population). Is there something similar here? If not, why not?

Most deaths due to covid occured at the beginning when we weren’t testing properly so I would take that with a piece of salt. We’re still fighting the coronor who incorrectly put down my aunt’s death due to cancer when she actually died from a preventable covid death as the hospital refused to give her oxygen.

Also, these are the number of deaths with restrictions. Without them they'd likely have been much higher because a) a much greater number of people would have caught covid and b) hospitals would have much lower capacity to treat people. The situation in hospitals was every bit as bad as the news presented it last spring and winter. We were at the absolute limit of the numbers we could treat, we couldn't have taken much more. I also suspect that the hospitals that were allowing cameras in were the ones (just about) coping - I had colleagues who were collecting patients from smaller units and they described them as like wartime field hospitals.

If you have the % and the total number then you can easily calculate the number per age bracket.

Another failed attempt to expose the truth by anti something.

So many unkind comments when I only asked for data. I'm not a scientist, I'm not a statistician - yes, I could obviously spend time calculating numbers from percentages (but I work!) and just wondered whether there was some accessible data out there.

I don't think Covid is 'just like the flu', but some countries have taken a much more measured approach, and one that probably the UK had taken too had the decision not become so politicised, and if it had been driven by a public health body rather than Boris et al. I was full on mask, isolated initially but initially but calmed down when I started to see the numbers and so judged my own risk (I'm not talking about others here).

Of course it's tragic for those who have underlying and are vulnerable. I do have friends (this is anecdotal), 3 GPs who tell me that within the medical profession, they feel compelled to err on the side of diagnosing Covid as a cause even when they really aren't sure so they think the numbers attributed to Covid are too high.

Of course we needed lockdown to stop the rates spiralling but we also are now in a different situation with vaccines, some general immunity and with more knowledge. I don't like a debate that is too polarised. It seems it's either anti-vax/anti lockdown or the opposite. I'm massive pro vaccines but probably feel that, to some extent, we have to stop catastrphising and start living with this as we cannot pursue a line of Covid elimination (and was of course never the aim of the Gov btw).

Thanks for everyone else on here who has been kind and helpful.

@theemperorhasnoclothes

A quarter of all adults have an 'underlying condition'.

Probably most people have family members who have underlying conditions they don't know about, people tend not to broadcast this stuff.

If the argument is we're happy to go back to the days of communicable diseases devastating families and hugely reducing life expectancy for the population as a whole, then we might as well have that discussion. Most countries have decided to try and avoid that.

My Mum had her family devastated by TB as a child. Her sister (aged 7) and father (just over 40) died plunging the entire family into poverty. It had a long lasting effect on even those family members unaffected by TB (some of the rest of them caught it and needed to have long term antibiotic therapy as children). Covid is the same, for every person who dies, there are multiple knock on effects.

And it's largely avoidable - if you look at so many countries who've managed to keep deaths low by (mainly) excellent contact tracing while infection levels low (backward, in person, contact tracing too). Things like proper ventilation in workplaces and schools, mask wearing. Their economies are better off too. With proper investment in public health this would have been possible here too. Last summer, infections were super low and we could have done this.

If we had actually invested a decent amount on money into the NHS since 2008, then we probably would have been able to help more people TBH.

As others are saying, it isn't just about deaths. It has been well known throughout that the younger someone is, the better their chances are of surviving - that doesn't mean covid is a mild illness for everyone younger, though.

I know of someone in their 20s through mutual friends; she was perfectly healthy before catching covid, spent time in ICU and now has permanent lung damage she'll have to live with all her life.

I think the problem is that many who were against lockdowns and any other covid restrictions use the stats to imply we never needed to control the virus as those who died were old and didn't have long left anyway (which in itself is a horrible attitude of course). But many others have suffered life-changing consequences, and if you're 25 or 35, that has a huge impact on the rest of your life.