Non mask wearers and “hard of thinking”

[2X4B523P]

After reading several threads on face mask since the 19th I have seen many posts where non maskers were referred to as being “hard of thinking” (along with being selfish). I have given thought to why I have decided not to wear a mask, see below, and I was wondering if those who refer to people as hard of thinking have actually given any thought themselves on the pros and cons of masks and came to their own conclusions?

It is known that mask use has a limited impact on transmission. From my own observations the sort of masks in common use have no effect whatsoever on preventing transmission from aerosols. They leak out around the sides of the mask and at the top, which prevented me wearing my glasses when using masks. If not a glasses wearer, anyone else can observe this for themselves by standing close to a mirror with a mask on and see the misting. I also wondered if a tight seal around the mask would help so I stood in front of a mirror and held the mask tight around my mouth and the vapour passed straight through. For those glasses users who didn't have the misting issue then there would have been a better gap elsewhere for the expelled air containing the moisture to escape from.

However masks do help to contain droplets, until evaporation takes over. This would depend on several factors including the time the mask was worn for, the ambient temperature, humidity levels and any movement of the air. Droplets are generated when talking, coughing or sneezing. These droplets fall to the ground within six foot which is where the original social distancing rule came in. I am able to avoid scattering droplets in a confined public space so feel that a face mask would have no positive effect on anyone else's health and safety. I shop alone and use the self checkout / scan and shop so seldom, if ever, talk to anyone. I very rarely sneeze (unless removing a lengthy nasal hair with a pair of cooking tongs) and if I did when in a public space then would do so into the crook of my elbow. I can't remember the last time I had to cough in a shop and if so would do as per sneezing. Aside from that I am also continuing with social distancing where possible. (I can keep my distance from others but others may enter my space)

Also I always use the hand sanitiser when entering shops and have had both doses of the Pfizer.

It is known that masks slow down the speed at which aerosols are propelled into the the air and also the direction.

If we spoke to each other face to face and maskless we would be fast propelling aerosols into each others faces mouths and eyes and without all the variables eg a side breeze, probably directly into each others orafices.

Even a bad mask would help to divert these away from each others orafices even to the sides is better than directly into someone's face.

The mask will catch some covid aerosols and all will help to reduce the amount of viral load the person gets off you.
Viral load is everything.

Your general shopping style op and your seemingly conscientious approach will probably reduce your chances of catching covid and passing it on.

Not every maskless person is going to be as careful without one as you are.

From my own observations the sort of masks in common use have no effect whatsoever on preventing transmission from aerosols

This just in from Professor Science

where i work (and i'm duty manager for most of my shifts so i walk the store regularly) i watch customers approach our store.....they pull out a mask from a pocket/handbag.....along with a shower of crumbs, receipts,etc ....then stick it on .......later on i see them swanning around tugging at it before pulling it under noses. Then as they approach staff and need to speak to them, said mask again gets pulled down further under the chin, where it remains whilst they go through tills and pay. As they approach the exit it gets pulled off and stuck back into pocket/bag as they make their way over to car or another shop on the retail park

many masks (depending on colour) have grimy marks around the edges and across the nose line

These dirty shabby re-used masks are very very important and keep everyone safe apparently

not sure its the non mask wearers who are the hard of thinking ones after seeing the state of masks and human behaviour around them op!

I got bogged down in the op, and couldn’t be bothered to finish it.

No real content, just regurgitated crap from the internet.

op, you are clearly not a scientist, and not able/ capable of any scientific analysis yourself

So I suggest you just listen to those who are. Save yourself a lot of grief

"it is known that..."

Known by whom?

OMG the thing I don’t like isn’t 100% effective at stopping transmission (despite no one ever claiming it was) so it should be stopped altogether! You’re all idiots!

** see also vaccines, testing.

Thank you for this careful scientific analysis, OP. I'll be sure to follow this advice over that of the Professors of Virology and Microbiology at my university who have been advising our senior management on mask-wearing.

@Lemonmelonsun

They certainly do deflect the aerosols and would help if talking face to face but the advise early on was to talk side to side, if wearing a mask then this advice would help propel aerosols directly at each other. If you passed someone side to side in a shop how many people would realise that aerosols are being emitted 90 degrees from where you would expect?

@gardeninggirl68
I've not even factored in how many people handle and store masks!

For those that need a visual tool on how masks contain aerosols see attached video. And no I’m not a scientist but able to make my own observations and come to my own conclusions.

Ok OP.
You're going to have to give us some links now.

@Geamhradh

Ok OP. You're going to have to give us some links now.

yOu TuBe ReSeArCh

Even a bad mask is better than no mask.

Can you tell us, OP, what the problems were with the studies that have drawn a different conclusion to yours? Here’s a good literature review.

A quote from the paper:
Multiple simulation studies show the filtration effects of cloth masks relative to surgical masks. Generally available household materials had between a 58% and 94% filtration rate for 1-μm bacteria particles, whereas surgical masks filtered 96% of those particles (77). A tea cloth mask was found to filter 60% of particles between 0.02 μm and 1 μm, where surgical masks filtered 75% (78). Simulation studies generally use a 30 L/min or higher challenge aerosol, which is around about 3 to 6 times the ventilation of a human at rest or doing light work (77). As a result, simulation studies may underestimate the efficacy of the use of unfitted masks in the community in practice.

OP, you had the same responses every time you've posted your "observations" on masks.
The video you linked doesn't show masks are useless, but that masks need to be worn correctly and well fitted. Don't you even understand the content of the video you like (in your own words) to post on mask threads?

@2X4B523P agree with you OP. Most transmission occurs in places where no masks are worn...i.e in the home.

As I said in the op I observed the spread of aerosols myself and anyone with a mirror or any piece of glass for that matter can also observe this themselves. The video is for those who are visual learners.

Besides that the post was asking if those who say hard of thinking actually give thought themselves.

OP, why not just be honest and say that you don't want to wear a mask so you're not going to, instead of trying to justify your decision with a whole load of pseudoscience?

Yes, a lot of people will think you're selfish (including me), but why do you care what they think when you clearly don't care about the fact that you're putting others at risk?

You aren't legally required to wear a mask, so don't bother if you don't want to, but don't try to pretend that it's based on a scientific judgement. Just own the fact that you don't want to wear one.

Op, I've never spoke or indicted I need too speak to anyone at world or out and about and both moved into a side by side motion.

If your mask is splitting your aerosols and some are coming out at one time side, some at the other, some on front they are still being broken up.

It's one reason why masks with the strange valve are a no no because they don't want a stream of covid shooting out.
Disperse disperse disperse!
Watered down.

@2X4B523P

As I said in the op I observed the spread of aerosols myself and anyone with a mirror or any piece of glass for that matter can also observe this themselves. The video is for those who are visual learners.

Besides that the post was asking if those who say hard of thinking actually give thought themselves.

I don't think anyone is specifically "hard of thinking" (odd turn of phrase no?) but your view is illogical and demonstrates a lack of understanding of pandemic control

You can hypothesise all you want, but masks reduce the amount of viral particles, if someone is infectious, expelled into the surrounding area. There's a huge amount of published articles with real world data demonstrating this.

This reduces the viral load someone nearby is exposed to, which lowers chance of infection and is associated with better clinical outcomes if they are infected. Compared to other NPIs, masks have very little impact on the non-exempt individual or the economy, hence why they are a good option to help control transmission.

@Geamhradh

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/17/cloth-face-masks-comfort-blankets-do-little-curb-covid-spread/

as others have said, don't wear a mask if you don't want to, but why is there this constant need to try and justify the decision with crap of which there is no robust evidence

As I said in the op I observed the spread of aerosols myself and anyone with a mirror or any piece of glass for that matter can also observe this themselves.

Ok, but this doesn’t explain why the scientists carrying out studies measuring actual viral particles are wrong, or why your metrology is superior? Can you explain where they’ve gone wrong, please?

I’m an evidence-based learner.

[quote 2X4B523P]@Geamhradh

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/17/cloth-face-masks-comfort-blankets-do-little-curb-covid-spread/[/quote]
@2X4B523P

I posted on the last mask thread

The quote is from Colin Axon, an engineer who who wrote a paper that was used in the evidence considered by SAGE, but is not part of it. Despite his views, and considering other sourced of evidence, they recommend cloth masks for the reasons outlined below.

There are crank scientists everywhere peddling pseudoscience on vaccines, masks, ivermectin, various suppression policies and you can easily find a quote from any of them to back up untrue statements

He claims that masks don't make a difference which is patently untrue. Predictably he is also anti-suppression policies and mass vaccination. There is a huge amount of evidence that demonstrates cloth masks reduce the amount of viral particles expelled by an infectious person, therefore reducing the viral load people in the surrounding environment are exposed to. This translates to fewer infections, and better clinical outcomes of those who are infectious.

You don't have to wear a mask if you don't want to now, but there's no need to try and justify it with things that aren't true.

where i work (and i'm duty manager for most of my shifts so i walk the store regularly) i watch customers approach our store.....they pull out a mask from a pocket/handbag.....along with a shower of crumbs, receipts,etc ....then stick it on .......later on i see them swanning around tugging at it before pulling it under noses. Then as they approach staff and need to speak to them, said mask again gets pulled down further under the chin, where it remains whilst they go through tills and pay. As they approach the exit it gets pulled off and stuck back into pocket/bag as they make their way over to car or another shop on the retail park

^^ sorry guilty 🤣